Senior free labour provider dies whilst mowing a church lawn

[Marcus]

...There are some folks that seem to get their endorphins flowing when walking all over someone with the intent to inflict pain rather than engaging in civil conversation...

Wow. When the mentalgymnast projects, he really does it all out, doesn't he?

[MG 2.0]

...There are some folks that seem to get their endorphins flowing when walking all over someone with the intent to inflict pain rather than engaging in civil conversation...

Wow. When the mentalgymnast projects, he really does it all out, doesn't he?

Just stating the facts ma'am. At least as I've observed things over a period of time now.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Look at this, the LDS church has another 'hotline':

When nonemployees—such as volunteers, members, customers, or visitors—visit or use Church facilities or services and are involved in an incident or injury, the manager or supervisor of the local operating unit or facility should follow these procedures.

When an incident or injury occurs, promptly summon emergency medical care or provide first aid, whichever is appropriate. Provide first aid only within your level of skill and training. Do not direct additional medical treatment for nonemployees.

In the event of a fatality, a serious injury, or potential legal action, immediately contact the Risk Management Division at 1-801-240-4049 or 1-866-LDS-RISK

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

What are the odds the church lawyers handle calls to this hotline the way they do for the child abuse hotline?

Also:

Avoid speculation or opinions. Gather fact-based narrative descriptions from witnesses or others knowledgeable about some aspect of the incident.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... ng#title71

That should be left to the critics on an online board that focuses on tearing down the church, its policies and doctrines, and/or its members.

Regards,
MG

[malkie]

Sorry for continuing the derail, but I'm flummoxed, and have no idea where to put this comment otherwise.

Wow. When the mentalgymnast projects, he really does it all out, doesn't he?

Just stating the facts ma'am. At least as I've observed things over a period of time now.

Regards,
MG

Are you really saying that you think that referring to Gad as "Dean Robbers", and Kish as "Reverend Lumen Kishkumen", etc., is an attempt to elevate them in real life? Wow!!

Where have you been for the past many years? Seriously!

[I Have Questions]

Sorry for continuing the derail, but I'm flummoxed, and have no idea where to put this comment otherwise.

Just stating the facts ma'am. At least as I've observed things over a period of time now.

Regards,
MG

Are you really saying that you think that referring to Gad as "Dean Robbers", and Kish as "Reverend Lumen Kishkumen", etc., is an attempt to elevate them in real life? Wow!!

Where have you been for the past many years? Seriously!

No need to be flummoxed malkie, just start another thread rather than helping MG derail this one.

[I Have Questions]

Look at this, the LDS church has another 'hotline':

When nonemployees—such as volunteers, members, customers, or visitors—visit or use Church facilities or services and are involved in an incident or injury, the manager or supervisor of the local operating unit or facility should follow these procedures.

When an incident or injury occurs, promptly summon emergency medical care or provide first aid, whichever is appropriate. Provide first aid only within your level of skill and training. Do not direct additional medical treatment for nonemployees.

In the event of a fatality, a serious injury, or potential legal action, immediately contact the Risk Management Division at 1-801-240-4049 or 1-866-LDS-RISK

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

What are the odds the church lawyers handle calls to this hotline the way they do for the child abuse hotline?

I’d say the odds are very high.

[MG 2.0]

Look at this, the LDS church has another 'hotline':

What are the odds the church lawyers handle calls to this hotline the way they do for the child abuse hotline?

I’d say the odds are very high.

Also an important note in regard to when there is an accident involving a non-employee:

Avoid speculation or opinions. Gather fact-based narrative descriptions from witnesses or others knowledgeable about some aspect of the incident.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... ng#title71

That should be left to the critics on an online board that focuses on tearing down the church, its policies and doctrines, and/or its members.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

...The definition of an accident is a happening that was unforeseen and unexpected. For it to have been an accident, the rolling of the ride on mower on a slope must be as a result of an unforeseen risk. Which it wasn’t. The risk of a ride on mower rolling over on a slope is well known. It’s detailed in the operating instructions of ride on lawnmowers. It’s why some people operating them on sloped ground have roll bars fitted. So whatever it was, by definition it wasn’t an accident.

The questions to be answered by the Church are:

1. Was the ride on mower of a type that is suitable for mowing slopes? (Not all ride on mowers are).
2. Was Elder Blackburn properly trained on the safe use of the equipment, especially on slopes?
3. Was Elder Blackburn operating the equipment within the safe use parameters?

The answer to at least one of those will be No, because ride on mowers don’t spontaneously overturn.

4. Was the ride on mower fitted with roll bars and a seat belt?

I wonder if service missionaries on Church sites are covered by OSHA

OSHA is part of the United States Department of Labor. The administrator for OSHA is the Assistant Secretary of Labor for Occupational Safety and Health. OSHA's administrator answers to the Secretary of Labor, who is a member of the cabinet of the President of the United States.

If so the Church should have reported the fatality within 8 hours…did they?

All employers are required to notify OSHA when an employee is killed on the job or suffers a work-related hospitalization, amputation, or loss of an eye.

A fatality must be reported within 8 hours.

I note that OSHA does encourage whistle blowing…

It does seem that volunteers are NOT covered by OSHA except under the following circumstances…

One final comment about volunteers and temporary workers not covered by OSHA is that if a workforce consists of both paid employees and volunteers, the workplace must comply with OSHA standards. Therefore, if a volunteer suffers an injury in a workplace accident that could have happened to a paid employee, the employer could still be cited and fined by OSHA.

As far as I can tell, OSHA doesn't seem to have an over-arching rule for churches that recruit nonemployee volunteers, call them 'missionaries,' and then put them to work in a full-time job which everyone else defines as a full-time position normally done by a secular employee. That may be why people are to call the hotline--LDS lawyers then get to work skirting responsibility and avoiding financial liability.

[Kishkumen]

I couldn't see the gif inline, so I removed the [img] tags so that at least the link works.

I'm not sure that MG is in on the joke - or, as in some cases, non-joke. Someone(s) objected, way back, when Shades added "Dr" to his username here. I'm almost 100% sure, however, that Shades earned a PhD - in English, I believe.

If I'm not mistaken, DCP disparages those without advanced degrees - at least for the discussion of some topics - while also failing to recognize when someone he doesn't know in real life claims, legitimately, to have such a degree. Perhaps MG follows this aspect of DCP's behaviour?

Yeah! I love that image of Ray Liotta laughing his ass off in the 1990 film Goodfellas. It's a classic gif. Interesting that I can see it with no issue, and usually it is my computer that is giving me fits over these things.

Yes, the use of titles here was exactly a humorous response to Mopologetic disdain for critics without advanced degrees. Of course, some of us do have actual advanced degrees and peer-reviewed publications under our belts, but that hardly matters. Apologists seek to de-legimitize those who disagree with them by any means available. It brings to mind the famous Carl Sandburg quote:

"If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell"

Mopologists spend a lot of time pounding tables and yelling like hell.

[Kishkumen]

The image won't open for me. So I guess I'm still not in on the joke.

It is an image of Ray Liotta laughing in Goodfellas.

I think hell will freeze over before I am addressed as Dean, Doctor, Reverend. Question: does a person have to be from the ivory tower of academia in order to receive these accolades? Truth alert: I do not want to be addressed by any of these qualifiers. I am not worthy and admit it.

That's cool, MG. No one is expecting you to play dean, doctor, or reverend here. We have had this fun game going on for ages, and it is part of the culture of this place. It is poking fun at the pretentiousness of apologists and the disdain they have shown for critics without advanced degrees.

On the other hand, when I am consistently called a "troll" or a "fibber" by a couple of folks who I think may be doing it for sadistic reasons and get some kind of pleasure out of doing so, I could do without that. But it is what it is. There are some folks that seem to get their endorphins flowing when walking all over someone with the intent to inflict pain rather than engaging in civil conversation. They let past grudges rule their heart and mind.

I have noticed that the Internet is not an ideal place to communicate productively. Very few of us actually know each other and our intentions. If we disagree about sensitive topics, we are almost guaranteed to fall into an ugly conflict unless we studiously avoid it with real personal discipline.

This is off topic. I don't want the thread to go off on a tangent...but I felt this needed to be said in conjunction with the other side of the coin where some folks seem to get 'special treatment'.

I don't think I get special treatment here. Do you think I do?