Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

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_Kishkumen
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

Lucy Harris wrote:If the book is closely tied to the culture of Dartmouth College, and in particular to Ethan Smith, yes. Not so much as the immediate region, as to the area North-- as in Canada and the borders thereunto. Those natives were still spunky. The ones south were aah- too downtrodden to benefit from an education.


The Dartmouth connection is one that needs a lot more exploration, in my opinion. In general terms it seems to fit so well.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Nevo
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Nevo »

Kishkumen wrote:The Dartmouth connection is one that needs a lot more exploration, in my opinion. In general terms it seems to fit so well.

Can someone please spell the Dartmouth theory out in more detail? I'm at a loss to see how a cabal of Dartmouth congregationalist ministers could have produced a book so antithetical to infant baptism, paid clergy, and Calvinist doctrines generally.
_Always Changing
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Always Changing »

Did you see "in general terms?"

Start here http://books.google.com/books/about/A_H ... EKAAAAIAAJ

Re-read this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=xhIeAA ... th&f=false

Then read this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=xnYXAA ... th&f=false

All the while remembering that Hiram Smith attended the school attached to Dartmouth college, Joseph Smith's leg infection was treated by doctors from Dartmouth, Ethan Smith was a graduate of Dartmouth, and was Oliver Cowdery's family's pastor, Solomon Spalding was a graduate of Dartmouth, and Sidney Rigdon is reported as having gained access to one of Sol's works. Ethan Smith's writings indicate a very intelligent, widely read, imaginative bigoted religious sociopath, with access to many books. Joseph Smith was penny-ante compared to him.

If you meditate over those readings and surrounding details for long enough, the light might begin to dawn.
Problems with auto-correct:
In Helaman 6:39, we see the Badmintons, so similar to Skousenite Mormons, taking over the government and abusing the rights of many.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

Nevo wrote:Can someone please spell the Dartmouth theory out in more detail? I'm at a loss to see how a cabal of Dartmouth congregationalist ministers could have produced a book so antithetical to infant baptism, paid clergy, and Calvinist doctrines generally.


Hey, Nevo. I wouldn't say that I have a "Dartmouth theory" per se. What I have is an interest in the intellectual currents at Dartmouth regarding Native Americans that seem pertinent to the Book of Mormon.

Does that help?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Chap
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Chap »

Kishkumen wrote:
Chap wrote:"Cherry pick": to cite material disproving a point of view held by Kishkumen.

I am happy for readers of this board to make up their minds which of us has the more reasonable point of view on this matter.


Cherry pick: Chap rephrases and re-presents what he has said numerous times, and then quotes the one that suits him or makes him look best at whatever point in the conversation he chooses to deploy it.

No one should be mistaken about the fact that you entered the conversation with a chip on your shoulder, expressions of disdain, etc., and that your reference to "Cat in the Hat" should be understood in that context.

Whitewash it though you may, and even find friends to back you up on that.


The man is obsessed ... still, I am glad he not longer insists that everyone agrees with him.

by the way, on 'disdain': I am happy to state that I don't admire the Book of Mormon as a religious text, a literary work or an attempt at imitating the grammar of the KJV. And I don't think I am alone in having that opinion, on this board or elsewhere. Of course I'd still feel the same way if no-one agreed with me.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

Chap wrote:The man is obsessed ... still, I am glad he not longer insists that everyone agrees with him.


LOL! Oh, yes, and everyone who has seen you pester me on one thread and then another would agree that I am the one who is obsessed.

Nice try, Chap.

Chap wrote:by the way, on 'disdain': I am happy to state that I don't admire the Book of Mormon as a religious text, a literary work or an attempt at imitating the grammar of the KJV. And I don't think I am alone in having that opinion, on this board or elsewhere. Of course I'd still feel the same way if no-one agreed with me.


Yes, Chap, I am well aware of your uninformed views.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Chap
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Chap »

Kishkumen wrote:
Chap wrote:The man is obsessed ... still, I am glad he not longer insists that everyone agrees with him.


LOL! Oh, yes, and everyone who has seen you pester me on one thread and then another would agree that I am the one who is obsessed.

Nice try, Chap.


To pester: to have the temerity to disagree with, or to comment on in any way other than by way of expressing admiration for, a post by Kishkumen on this discussion board, or to fail to accept that his judgement and tastes are a tribunal from which there is no appeal.

Kishkumen wrote:
Chap wrote:by the way, on 'disdain': I am happy to state that I don't admire the Book of Mormon as a religious text, a literary work or an attempt at imitating the grammar of the KJV. And I don't think I am alone in having that opinion, on this board or elsewhere. Of course I'd still feel the same way if no-one agreed with me.


Yes, Chap, I am well aware of your uninformed views.


What would one have to do to be 'informed' in expressing a lack of admiration for the Book of Mormon as a religious text, a literary work, or an attempt at imitating the grammar of the KJV?

Have read a good number of religious texts from a variety of cultures? Check.
Have read a good number of literary works, again from a variety of cultures? Check.
Be familiar with the grammar of the KJV? Check.
(Of course, as an anonymous coward, I could be lying about all that)

Damn, I forgot the important bit: not offend the sensibilities or (considerable) amour-propre of Kishkumen. Facepalm.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Kishkumen
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Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

Chap wrote:To pester: to have the temerity to disagree with, or to comment on in any way other than by way of expressing admiration for, a post by Kishkumen on this discussion board, or to fail to accept that his judgement and tastes are a tribunal from which there is no appeal.


OK, now you're sounding more than a little weird. You can get over yourself at any time. I find you an annoying prat. So sue me.

Chap wrote:Have read a good number of religious texts from a variety of cultures? Check.
Have read a good number of literary works, again from a variety of cultures? Check.
Be familiar with the grammar of the KJV? Check.
(Of course, as an anonymous coward, I could be lying about all that)


Is that your apologia?

Seriously?

Ahem.

"Don't doubt me, man! I have read stuff and whatnot. I'm like totally qualified." ~Chap
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Always Changing
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Always Changing »

My librarian found this article for me, and I ordered the book.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman ... d-fue.html
Problems with auto-correct:
In Helaman 6:39, we see the Badmintons, so similar to Skousenite Mormons, taking over the government and abusing the rights of many.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

Lucy Harris wrote:My librarian found this article for me, and I ordered the book.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman ... d-fue.html


This caught my eye:

Rev. Samuel West of Dartmouth declared the pope to be “the second beast” of Revelation while Joseph Perry warned his Connecticut neighbors that they would soon need to swap “the best religion in the world” for “all the barbarity, trumpery and superstition of popery; or burn at the stake, or submit to the tortures of the inquisition.” And, he reasoned, English lawmakers were being controlled by the devil; the Quebec Act “first sprang from that original wicked politician.”
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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