List of things that make Mormonism a cult

[_Jason Bourne]

One may be very interested but struggle with issues and problems. Oh and let us here note that tithing was not always a requirement for temple participation, and it has not always been consistently applied in the Church. Same for WoW.

And neither animal sacrifice or the shewbread offering is required on a day of atonement. And your point is?

The point is Coggy, that the requirements for a TR have been in flux over the bried period in history that the LDS Church has existed and continuity of requirements to get your pass is anything but consistent.

[_rcrocket]

I think it should be more proactive with teaching the history so no one is startled. And that's all.

On the issue of being startled about polygamy, and the obligation to teach the truth, I agree. For that reason, I was startled when I learned that Joseph Fielding Smith's Essentials in Church History taught that Joseph Smith had multiple wives.

I am also shocked that the Sesquicentennial Project's volume dedicated to the Nauvoo Era (Glenn Leonard, Nauvoo), although not exactly a Church publication started out as one and is published by BYU Press, goes into some detail about Joseph Smith's wives. I was really shocked and surprised that the Church of all folks, or at least BYU, would be so "proactive." Really, I was startled.

And then, there was the Church's 19th Century publication in the Deseret News of affidavits of former wives of Joseph Smith, offered to refute Emma's claim that Joseph didn't practice plural marriage. Come on -- the Deseret News? What was the Church thinking in making such disclosures?

And then there was the Church's historian, who in 1979 published a book used as a textbook at BYU and Institute classes. L. Arrington, The Mormon Experience. Talking all about Joseph Smith's polygamy. Dang it; how stupified I was by this disclosure too!!! Never mind the fact that the church authorized the publication of the Journal of Discourses where this is referenced repeatedly. What is the Church thinking? Damn it -- why all this need to astound and startle me?

Oh oh oh -- the Encylopedia of Mormonism, and its entry on Plural Marriage. Now, there is a publication with full Church sanction. How dumbfounded I was to be so startled about the teaching of Joseph Smith's wives. Gag; I'm going to vomit with all my startling revelations.

[_Moniker]

I think it should be more proactive with teaching the history so no one is startled. And that's all.

On the issue of being startled about polygamy, and the obligation to teach the truth, I agree. For that reason, I was startled when I learned that Joseph Fielding Smith's Essentials in Church History taught that Joseph Smith had multiple wives.

I am also shocked that the Sesquicentennial Project's volume dedicated to the Nauvoo Era (Glenn Leonard, Nauvoo), although not exactly a Church publication started out as one and is published by BYU Press, goes into some detail about Joseph Smith's wives. I was really shocked and surprised that the Church of all folks, or at least BYU, would be so "proactive." Really, I was startled.

And then, there was the Church's 19th Century publication in the Deseret News of affidavits of former wives of Joseph Smith, offered to refute Emma's claim that Joseph didn't practice plural marriage. Come on -- the Deseret News? What was the Church thinking in making such disclosures?

And then there was the Church's historian, who in 1979 published a book used as a textbook at BYU and Institute classes. L. Arrington, The Mormon Experience. Talking all about Joseph Smith's polygamy. Dang it; how stupified I was by this disclosure too!!! Never mind the fact that the church authorized the publication of the Journal of Discourses where this is referenced repeatedly. What is the Church thinking? Damn it -- why all this need to astound and startle me?

Oh oh oh -- the Encylopedia of Mormonism, and its entry on Plural Marriage. Now, there is a publication with full Church sanction. How dumbfounded I was to be so startled about the teaching of Joseph Smith's wives. Gag; I'm going to vomit with all my startling revelations.

I'm glad you're being a smart ass. I think it's fantabulous that you know the history! As someone that was investigating, at one point, I got freaked out because I was told by missionaries that Joseph Smith had only one wife. I knew that was blatantly false! I got ALL of my information from FARMS. Now, what would have happened if I had converted (without that FARMS knowledge) and later found out I was lied to? Disappointment? Anger?

Why wouldn't I trust those missionaries? How would I have even known WHAT to ask??

I don't know why there is such a defensive stance to this??!!

[_The Nehor]

Oh, add to the list that I go out dressed in dark robes and do the Black Mass on nearby hills.....except this is Texas so it's really more anthills....preferably abandoned ones.

[_ludwigm]

Here are a few "official" data about polygamy:

page vii
Historical Summary ... This summary omits many important events of his life, including his marriages and the births and deaths of his children, to whom he was devoted.

page x
1885 Receives word during a visit to California that federal officials have ordered his arrest for practicing polygamy. Returns to Salt Lake City on 27 January. On 1 February, preaches his last public sermon and, in hopes of limiting the persecution against the Church by federal authorities, goes into hiding (76).

- in hopes of limiting the persecution against himself, for practicing polygamy

page viii
Historical Summary ... This summary omits some important events in his personal life, including his marriages (plural marriage was being practiced in the Church at that time) and the births and deaths of his children, to whom he was devoted.

page 381
CHAPTER 43 Fathers in the Home
... On 27 June 1918, President Smith presided at the Salt Lake City Cemetery, where a monument had been erected in honor of his father. On that occasion, he said: "I am blessed today with thirty-five children living ..."

- plural marriage was being practiced by JFS at that time

One should read not only the lines of the texts but between the lines.

If You visit http://www.LDS.org/churchhistory/presidents/leaders.jsp, for presidents from Brigham Young to Heber J. Grant there are no marriage data in the " Significant Events" sections. They were the polygamous ones, the official site defines them unambiguosly using the omission. From George Albert Smith on, the marriages are documented. Similarly, the elements of the "Teaching of Presidents ..." serie after HJG don't omit some important events, their marriages.

Milk before meat. Rot on milk in Your whole life!

[_the road to hana]

If You visit http://www.LDS.org/churchhistory/presidents/leaders.jsp, for presidents from Brigham Young to Heber J. Grant there are no marriage data in the " Significant Events" sections. They were the polygamous ones, the official site defines them unambiguosly using the omission. From George Albert Smith on, the marriages are documented. Similarly, the elements of the "Teaching of Presidents ..." serie after HJG don't omit some important events, their marriages.

I was so flabbergasted by this I went to the site to see it for myself. You are absolutely right. No mention of any marriage for a president of the LDS Church prior to George Albert Smith, and after that, they're all mentioned.

[_the road to hana]

Joseph Smith's other wives are not in the slightest way gemain to the core concepts of the Gospel nonmembers need to know, and there is no reason to scare them away with such knowledge.

This is such an amazing statement it deserves to be bolded.

I'd love to see a copy of that inserted into the front cover of every Book of Mormon distributed worldwide, sold in bookstores, or tucked in Marriott hotel room nightstands,

I'd love to see a copy of that put as a disclaimer on the LDS Church's official website.

I'd love to see a copy of that posted on billboards throughout the Intermountain West.

I'd love to hear President Hinckley announce this at General Conference, or proclaim it to Larry King on national television.

"Not in the slightest way germain to the core concepts of the Gospel nonmembers need to know?"

Phenomenal.

Marriage is not now a core concept of the Gospel.

Eternal marriage is not now a core concept of the Gospel.

Integrity is not now a core concept of the Gospel.

Honesty is not now a core concept of the Gospel.

Fidelity is not now a core concept of the Gospel.

Obeying, honoring and sustaining the law is not now a core concept of the Gospel.

Salvific ordinances are not now a core concept of the Gospel.

[_ludwigm]

If You visit http://www.LDS.org/churchhistory/presidents/leaders.jsp, for presidents from Brigham Young to Heber J. Grant there are no marriage data in the " Significant Events" sections.
...

I was so flabbergasted by this I went to the site to see it for myself. You are absolutely right. No mention of any marriage for a president of the LDS Church prior to George Albert Smith, and after that, they're all mentioned.

Ensign articles, presidents' manuals, scripture explanations can be really boring, but can be useful. It is a very hard task to call the official site unofficial.
Last week, after a little citation from Brigham Young manual as an answer to the "we don't teach" argument (the manual called the ethernal progression thing doctrinal) I didn't get any reflection. The prophet spake, the debate was over ...

[_why me]

The LDS church is not a cult although some exmembers wish to be it is. First, a person is free to join the church. Second, a person is free to leave the church. Third, the church is a religious organization which allows its members to live in the world. Fourth, there is no brainwashing present.

Cults, generally speaking, do not follow the above points.

The LDS church does have a powerful message and a powerful story. Not to mention the holy spirit which testifies to the truthfulness of its gospel. This in itself does not make it a cult but it could make it difficult to leave.

[_the road to hana]

The LDS church is not a cult although some exmembers wish to be it is. First, a person is free to join the church.

For most converts, this is a true statement, with the caveat, "without full disclosure."

Second, a person is free to leave the church.

For most members, this is a true statement, with the caveat, "but not without complication." The LDS Church generally tenaciously holds onto members, and those who wish to leave generally find obstacles to that process.

Third, the church is a religious organization which allows its members to live in the world.

For most members, this is a true statement, with the caveat, "as long as they keep the closely guarded secrets of the corporation."

Fourth, there is no brainwashing present.

For most members, this is a true statement, with the caveat, "as long as you aren't born into the church or don't attend any meetings."

The LDS church does have a powerful message and a powerful story. Not to mention the holy spirit which testifies to the truthfulness of its gospel. This in itself does not make it a cult but it could make it difficult to leave.

Aren't you Catholic?