skippy the dead wrote: Essentially, if this account is accurate, there is definitely a secret caste system in place in the church, which would seem to run counter to the basic principles taught by Jesus.
So does anybody here have any good information on this rite?
One of Quin's books (I'm too lazy to look it up right now) lists the bios of all the 20th century GAs, and included in this is their 2nd anointing.
Yes, the church does have a cast system, and at the top is the Mormon royalty. They are the ones who nominate each other for things like this super secret special 2nd anointing stuff. They also get all the good seats at general conference, and that still really pisses me off.
My family has had multiple conversations about this ritual because my sister had hers done before she passed away.
Yeah, it is strange that your parents didn't say anything, or maybe it is more strange that your sister did? (smile)
Did your sister tell you much about it? If so was her account similar to the one posted?
This is a topic that has always interested me, well at least since I found out about it. :-) Which was only after my disbelief. I know believing members today who do not believe me when I tell them there is such a ritual.
;-)
~dancer~
Hi ~dancer~ ;)
My sister did not tell me. I was 13 at the time it happened. My older brother told me several years later, explaining how the referral had happened and who had performed the ordinance. Now that I am thinking about it, this is really the oddest thing. This same older brother who is six years old than I provided me this information about my sister. He was actually on his mission at the time my sister died. He also was the one who told me when my BIL had come home to announce to my sister that he had committed adultery and the ensuing conversation/blessing that took place because the bishop was also there at the home at the time. And this very same brother was the one that called me to tell me the moment mom passed away.
My sister apparently recorded it in detail in her journal and her husband is in possession of that journal. I have never requested to read it, but I am sure he would allow me to do so if I asked. So I do not know of the actual details of what she had personally written about it.
Charity, my dad and his new fiancee both have huge extended family. My dad has nine children, 43 grandchildren and umpteen great grandchildren. She has seven children, and umpteen grandchildren. Several of her children are not temple worthy, and they both thought it would be more unifying for the family if they allowed as much family as possible to be present for the ceremony. The whole things sounds like a train wreck to me, but what do I know except for that there will be good food! They will be married in the chapel by my BIL's brother who used to be our bishop and is now stake president. My father has seemed very lonely since my mom's death, so I am hopeful his new wife will give him that much needed companionship. He's a very good man.
"I think one of the great mysteries of the gospel is that anyone still believes it." Sethbag, MADB, Feb 22 2008
Gadianton wrote:At BYU, my Book of Mormon teacher talked about this ordinance. He confirmed what I knew to be true about it at the time, that in part, it involved "receiving the 2nd comforter", meanting a personal visitation by Jesus. He then indicated knowledge of a couple he felt had had the ordinance done.
As a point of trivia, I wonder how many Internet Mormons have had the ordinance?
I also wonder what a couple might think if they found out they had been nominated by a friend but the nomination got blackballed higher up?
It's definitely a good idea for the church to do it. I'd wager most of those who get it are mission presidents, heavy financial donators, and maybe temple presidents. Patriarchs, I kind of doubt it. I tend to think that the reward is a result of $$$$$$$$$, and that can come either through direct contribution, or service at a level that results in membership increases and hence more money.
While we're playing the guessing game: I wonder if DCP has received his 2nd Anointing? My guess is that, Yes, he has.
Gadianton wrote:It's definitely a good idea for the church to do it. I'd wager most of those who get it are mission presidents, heavy financial donators, and maybe temple presidents. Patriarchs, I kind of doubt it. I tend to think that the reward is a result of $$$$$$$$$, and that can come either through direct contribution, or service at a level that results in membership increases and hence more money.
If you don't emphasize the $$$ aspect and concentrate on commitment instead, I think it makes sense especially after some of the covenants one makes in the temple.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Scottie wrote:Does that mean Helen Marr Kimball was the first to have her CaEMS for marrying Joseph Smith?
As I understand it, the Kimball Clan and all their descendents were promised essentially the same thing as this CaEMS in exchange for young Helen Marr. If this is a misunderstanding on my part I would appreciate the correct information.
Scottie wrote:Does that mean Helen Marr Kimball was the first to have her CaEMS for marrying Joseph Smith?
As I understand it, the Kimball Clan and all their descendents were promised essentially the same thing as this CaEMS in exchange for young Helen Marr. If this is a misunderstanding on my part I would appreciate the correct information.
The Kimballs and the Whitneys received the same promise: give up a daughter, gain exaltation.
Here's what Joseph said to the Whitneys:
"Verily, thus saith the Lord unto my servant N.K. Whitney, the thing that my servant Joseph Smith has made known unto you and your family and which you have agreed upon is right in mine eyes and shall be rewarded upon your heads with honor and immortality and eternal life to all your house, both old and young."
Here's what he said to Helen Kimball:
"If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father’s household & all of your kindred."
Scottie wrote:Does that mean Helen Marr Kimball was the first to have her CaEMS for marrying Joseph Smith?
As I understand it, the Kimball Clan and all their descendents were promised essentially the same thing as this CaEMS in exchange for young Helen Marr. If this is a misunderstanding on my part I would appreciate the correct information.
The Kimballs and the Whitneys received the same promise: give up a daughter, gain exaltation.
Here's what Joseph said to the Whitneys:
"Verily, thus saith the Lord unto my servant N.K. Whitney, the thing that my servant Joseph Smith has made known unto you and your family and which you have agreed upon is right in mine eyes and shall be rewarded upon your heads with honor and immortality and eternal life to all your house, both old and young."
Here's what he said to Helen Kimball:
"If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father’s household & all of your kindred."
So the blessing could indeed be abbreviated and not conducted in the Temple. However, is this change in procedure possible without the sacrifice of a nubile teen daughter (virgin) or could it be, for instance, extended to a whole congregation whenever a General Authority visits?
moksha wrote: So the blessing could indeed be abbreviated and not conducted in the Temple. However, is this change in procedure possible without the sacrifice of a nubile teen daughter (virgin) or could it be, for instance, extended to a whole congregation whenever a General Authority visits?
I get the feeling that it was nothing more than an empty promise designed to get what he wanted.
moksha wrote: So the blessing could indeed be abbreviated and not conducted in the Temple. However, is this change in procedure possible without the sacrifice of a nubile teen daughter (virgin) or could it be, for instance, extended to a whole congregation whenever a General Authority visits?
I get the feeling that it was nothing more than an empty promise designed to get what he wanted.