The Unreasonableness of Atheism

[_Moniker]

I've had a very good life compared to many fellow human beings who have passed on. Yet I still need religion to help me push through it. Otherwise it's just not worth it. I wonder how my ancestors walked into gunfire than with all their confederate money worthless, had to make a living with one leg. And yet he did, and left an inheritance as well.

So, without religion death would be better than life?

Perhaps your ancestor found a purpose within his life that made it worth the risk of death to attain?

[_ajax18]

I've had a very good life compared to many fellow human beings who have passed on. Yet I still need religion to help me push through it. Otherwise it's just not worth it. I wonder how my ancestors walked into gunfire than with all their confederate money worthless, had to make a living with one leg. And yet he did, and left an inheritance as well.

So, without religion death would be better than life?

Perhaps your ancestor found a purpose within his life that made it worth the risk of death to attain?

Perhaps, Yet I also remember a Greek fable about a man who prayed that he would never die. When he got what he asked for, he regretted it. Even from an atheist perspective I believe that life can be worse than death. Do you disagree?

I think my ancestor believed in family and the after life. He wanted to make a happier world for his offspring. He believed that what he did in this life would return upon him in the next life. One thing is for sure. He lived a very difficult life, as most human beings have. He definitely put more into it, than the happiness he got out of it. I think he knew this as he did it. So I don't think just saying, "Life is to enjoy," would have driven him to accomplish what he accomplished.

I have a friend who chose to be on drugs all the time. He made enough money dealing that he was able to get them. Maybe his family didn't like it much, but who can argue that he wasn't happier? If he weren't happier, he wouldn't have continued to take them. If he thought he would have been happier living longer without drugs, he would have stopped. He was a state champion distance runner, with a willpower second to none. I wasn't nearly as good as him, but I ran enough of those races to know how painful it is. If he had a good enough reason to stop, he would have stopped. I think that is what addiction means. People who have tasted the joy of drugs, can't find a good enough reason to refrain from them. In most cases the only thing that stops them is running out of money, or jail, and that is only temporary because their perspective has not changed.

[_Moniker]

I've had a very good life compared to many fellow human beings who have passed on. Yet I still need religion to help me push through it. Otherwise it's just not worth it. I wonder how my ancestors walked into gunfire than with all their confederate money worthless, had to make a living with one leg. And yet he did, and left an inheritance as well.

So, without religion death would be better than life?

Perhaps your ancestor found a purpose within his life that made it worth the risk of death to attain?

Perhaps, Yet I also remember a Greek fable about a man who prayed that he would never die. When he got what he asked for, he regretted it.

Will you recall that fable when you make it to the Celestial Kingdom?

[_ajax18]

I've had a very good life compared to many fellow human beings who have passed on. Yet I still need religion to help me push through it. Otherwise it's just not worth it. I wonder how my ancestors walked into gunfire than with all their confederate money worthless, had to make a living with one leg. And yet he did, and left an inheritance as well.

So, without religion death would be better than life?

Perhaps your ancestor found a purpose within his life that made it worth the risk of death to attain?

Perhaps, Yet I also remember a Greek fable about a man who prayed that he would never die. When he got what he asked for, he regretted it.

Will you recall that fable when you make it to the Celestial Kingdom?

I'm not sure. My Celestial kingdom is different from the view of a lot of Mormons. It's what I make every day with the choices I make. So I guess it will be a proportionate mix of good and bad. In short, I'll probably end up around people like myself. Honestly I shy away from the idea of levels. We're all unique and we'll all attain a different level.

The problem with the fable was that the Greek man didn't account for getting sick and disabled. That's where I start wondering where atheist would draw the line on pulling the plug on life support.

[_beastie]

I'm still trying to understand why anyone likes that answer, besides it being true. I've had a very good life compared to many fellow human beings who have passed on. Yet I still need religion to help me push through it. Otherwise it's just not worth it. I wonder how my ancestors walked into gunfire than with all their confederate money worthless, had to make a living with one leg. And yet he did, and left an inheritance as well.

Ajax,

The reality of the universe is indifferent to whether or not we like that reality. Whether or not we like reality has nothing to do with what reality is.

You asked earlier how we push on when life isn't worth living. There was only one time in my life when I questioned whether life was worth living, and that was as an LDS missionary. I've previously mentioned that was the only time in my life I was seriously depressed - so depressed at one point I could barely leave our tiny one room apartment without breaking into tears. In a strange way, that horrific mission experience seems to have put other things in perspective throughout the rest of my life, and, in comparison, nothing else in my life has felt as hopeless and overwhelming as that time did. And I've been through some tough times. I remember on my mission thinking that suicide could be an out if it were not for the fact that I'd simply "wake up" on the other side with really PO'd Heavenly Father, and then I'd likely suffer an eternity for what I'd done. That thought kept me going.

I think that unless you are dealing with some overhwelming life circumstance (like a very bad marriage), if you really feel that life, on its own, isn't worth living, then it might be a good idea to get some medical intervention. You sound depressed to me. And if you are dealing with an overwhelming life circumstance, find a way to change it, if possible - and you may need help with that, too.

But if I were to face such a deep depressive outlook that life just didn't feel worth living, I imagine that the fear of hurting my family would keep me determined to hang on. And I believe it would get better, eventually - maybe only with professional intervention, but I do believe it would eventually get better.

[Guest]

AJax, why didn't you post a new reply instead of editing your last one? It'll look like I took the same reply of yours and replied twice to it. :)

I've had a very good life compared to many fellow human beings who have passed on. Yet I still need religion to help me push through it. Otherwise it's just not worth it. I wonder how my ancestors walked into gunfire than with all their confederate money worthless, had to make a living with one leg. And yet he did, and left an inheritance as well.

So, without religion death would be better than life?

Perhaps your ancestor found a purpose within his life that made it worth the risk of death to attain?

Perhaps, Yet I also remember a Greek fable about a man who prayed that he would never die. When he got what he asked for, he regretted it. Even from an atheist perspective I believe that life can be worse than death. Do you disagree?

I don't disagree that life can be so painful that death would be sought after for relief. Yet, I don't see how lacking religion would make life not worth living can you explain that comment to me? Doesn't the religion you subscribe to promise eternal life? You don't really subscribe to the finality of life, right? You believe in the promise of eternal life, so how can you really believe that life is worse than death if you look forward to an eternity of life? I don't understand your point, I suppose.

[_Moniker]

I'm not sure. My Celestial kingdom is different from the view of a lot of Mormons. It's what I make every day with the choices I make. So I guess it will be a proportionate mix of good and bad. In short, I'll probably end up around people like myself. Honestly I shy away from the idea of levels. We're all unique and we'll all attain a different level.

The problem with the fable was that the Greek man didn't account for getting sick and disabled. That's where I start wondering where atheist would draw the line on pulling the plug on life support.

I was joking with you...... eternal life in heaven and the fable of a man regretting that he would never die. ??

[_ajax18]

Having a glorified resurrected body as opposed to an imperfect body subject to sickness, hunger, pain etc. That's a far different life than the one we know. No I wouldn't want an eternity of earthly life. Joseph Smith said that if we could see how good it was in the Terrestrial kingdom, we would kill ourselves to get there. Religion offers an incentive to those who endure mortal life. Most Christian religions discourage suicide. The point being, even when you're not getting enough happiness out of life to make it worth the pain to you, religion (or at least some view of an after life) promises (or allows for) that happiness and reciprocity in the future.

[_antishock8]

Fair enough, but what motivates you to keep living when life is not so good?

I think you're making an assumption that doesn't apply to me. Again, I recommend you check into Nihilism.

Or do you believe that life is always better than death?

I'm not sure what the context is reference this statement. However, life isn't always "better" than death. Life, to me, isn't better or worse than death. It just is what it is. Death is what it is. They're both natural cycles that occur to all living things, if not everything.

The question you should be asking yourself is why you feel it's necessary to engage is fantasty-based thinking in order to deal with the implications of your existence. I would suggest that fear of your own mortality is what drives you toward escapism. If you can get a handle on that, you might be able to process yourself through the crisis that you're clearly experiencing vis a vis your participation on this board. You want to accept the fraudulent nature of Mormonism, but your fear of death and your own temporality ties you back to the lie. I understand. It's a difficult transition.

[_ajax18]

However, life isn't always "better" than death. Life, to me, isn't better or worse than death. It just is what it is. Death is what it is.

So how bad would your life have to get before you would choose suicide?