LDS Security Detains Affectionate (Gay) Couple on Plaza

[_maklelan]

was there a no trespassing sign anywhere. Were the couple that walked past at the end of the tape trespassing?

Once they were notified that it was private property and they were asked to leave they are trespassing by refusing. That's not open for debate. Even the couple admits that they knew they were in the wrong in refusing to leave.

Aune was also highly involved, by his own admission, in protesting the change in proprietorship, so his insisting it wasn't private property, or even moreso that he didn't know it was private property, is a flat out lie.

I go to the beach in the morning. There is a big sign that says the beach is closed from 10pm to 5am. It's clear and those caught on the beach during that time will likely be cited by the police.

But this couple was asked to tone it down. They refused. They were then told it was private property and they would asked to leave if they didn't tone it down. They again refused. They were then asked to leave. They refused. There's absolutely no defending their ignorance at that point. They knowingly and intentionally refused to leave private property, and that's trespassing. It's really as simple as that.

[_karl61]

was there a no trespassing sign anywhere. Were the couple that walked past at the end of the tape trespassing?

Once they were notified that it was private property and they were asked to leave they are trespassing by refusing. That's not open for debate. Even the couple admits that they knew they were in the wrong in refusing to leave.

Aune was also highly involved, by his own admission, in protesting the change in proprietorship, so his insisting it wasn't private property, or even moreso that he didn't know it was private property, is a flat out lie.

I go to the beach in the morning. There is a big sign that says the beach is closed from 10pm to 5am. It's clear and those caught on the beach during that time will likely be cited by the police.

But this couple was asked to tone it down. They refused. They were then told it was private property and they would asked to leave if they didn't tone it down. They again refused. They were then asked to leave. They refused. There's absolutely no defending their ignorance at that point. They knowingly and intentionally refused to leave private property, and that's trespassing. It's really as simple as that.

security could have toned it down too. I've seen situations where the person has who has the law on their side can actually escalate the situation worse by how they respond to the angry people, they just make the people angrier. The question is do you take an extra five minutes and wait for the police to arrive or do you go with the might makes right and spend five years in a law suit.

[_TAK]

maklelan

Your logic is a joke and your defense of your bigotry is an even bigger joke

Do everyone a favor and go clime back in that bunker of yours and wait for Jesus.. Moron.

[_maklelan]

Do everyone a favor and go clime back in that bunker of yours and wait for Jesus.. Moron.

Stellar retort. By the way, there's a /b/ on the end of the word "climb."

[_maklelan]

security could have toned it down too.

I think the video shows they were trying to calm the couple down and be as respectful as they could be expected to be. The couple were admittedly trying to bate the security guards ("into revealing their bigotry").

I've seen situations where the person has who has the law on their side can actually escalate the situation worse by how they respond to the angry people, they just make the people angrier. The question is do you take an extra five minutes and wait for the police to arrive or do you go with the might makes right and spend five years in a law suit.

I don't think that's an accurate characterization. They were doing their jobs and they did them exactly as they were required to.

[_karl61]

I use to work in situations that were ten times more stressful and I'm telling you they were way too quick to get physical. In fact, a security guard who gets physical is just inviting a law suit because they have little to no training in dealing with high stress situations. In fact you can really tell how well trained someone is by how fast they get physical.

[_Daniel2]

I don't think that's an accurate characterization. They were doing their jobs and they did them exactly as they were required to.

I don't believe their jobs "required" them to be as physical as they were. The certainly could have called the police, monitored the situation, and refused to initiate any physical contact with the couple, waiting until the police arrived to handle the situation. I am surprised that you can't admit that their jobs didn't "require" them to be as physically aggressive as they were in the video, even if they were justified in trying to remove the offending trespassers from the private property.

From my MAD post on this subject (in case anyone isn't following the parrallel discussions):

name='maklelan' date='31 July 2009 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1249059945' post='1208700387']

If they called the police and the two left they'd have some explaining to do to the cops when they showed up. Detainment is an SOP in situations like that, and it guarantees they aren't going to be left shrugging their shoulders when the cops show up.

If the two had left after security had called the police, they would have gotten exactly what security had been wanted--the two offending individuals off their private property. That was their goal in the first place, as I see it...

I don't understand why you feel it would be problematic if the two trespassers left and security would've had to explain to the police that, "Yeah, the two guys who were trespassing left." It's not likely the police would have punished the LDS security guards for calling them for assistance...

When you say "detainment is an SOP in situations like that," who's SOPs are you referring to...? The church manual? Security Guard Training? I honestly don't understand how you feel that is applicable in this case. The security guards were trying to get these overly-affectionate (from their perspective) guys to leave... how would it have been a problem if they simply HAD left, before the police arrived...?

Finally... I think I didn't explain my previous point clear enough: the two men were CLEARLY defensively entrenching themselves where they were by digging their heals in. Even if security's goal WAS to keep the men there to prosecute them for tresspassing, the footage certainly seems to strongly indicate that they two men WEREN'T trying "to escape" being detained, by that point--they weren't budging! Rather than have the church be receiving all this negative publicity about manhandling this gay couple, my point is simply that the church would come out better if their security guards had either a) allowed the guys to vacate their property before the police arrived; or b) calmly stayed near the 'going-no-where' lovers (and avoiding any physical contact between the two) till the police showed up and then escorted them off the property. I don't believe ANYone was benefitted by this "SOP" of detainment--least of all the church.

My view,
Darin

[_karl61]

The more I look at the video the crazier it gets. The "big" guy at the beginning interrupts his coworker by barging in and giving them an ultimatum. This clearly escalates the situation worse. He is now physically close which makes the one he is talking to uncomfortable. Then you see him reach and grab the guy. This was ridiculous. They should have talked to the guy for ten minutes and every time he got louder the security should have stayed calm and talk to them in a professional manner.

They clearly have not trained together to work a situation like this; this will come out in court and they will get hammered.

[Guest]

On the lighter side of things...

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak ... _853250354

Dang... can't get the link to work. Sorry...

It's a political cartoon of a dog and cat kissing on temple square, with two onlooking security guards saying to a gay couple, "This is all your fault."

If I can get it to work, I'll fix it sometime...

Darin

[_karl61]

If they called the police and the two left they'd have some explaining to do to the cops when they showed up

what! why? unless they have a history of calling in bogus reports.