A Very Limited Geography

[_sock puppet]

Professor Hamblin theorized that given recent archeological and genetic findings, that a small group of emigrating Jews landing haphazardly on the coast of a large and thriving civilization would have eventually had their identity wiped out and there would be nothing left to find. He then looked back into the data, at the thousands of pages of research done by his peers, and saw that no evidence of the Book of Mormon people had been discovered. This confirmed his test hypothesis, thus proving the antiquity of the Book of Mormon.

Simon, how many generations would it take to wipe out a DNA identity?

Anyone, where in the Book of Mormon does it say that Lehi's progeny intermixed with a pre-existing civilization? What did the Book of Mormon prophets write about this pre-exiting civilization?

If I recall correctly, the Book of Mormon prophets identified two distinct groups of descendants of Lehi, Nephites and Lamanites, that each referred to the other as such and dealt with the other and they co-existed as distinct tribes for about 1,000 years. They identified as such until as late as 424 AD, so the predominant characteristic of those of the Lamanite or Nephite tribe would be the fact that they were descendants of Lehi over being part of a pre-existing civilization. So Hamblin's muting of the DNA had to occur in the number of generations that could be packed into less than 1600 years (2011-424).

[_Simon Belmont]

In spite of all the apologistic blathering, here is the currently accepted scientific conclusion:

There is ZERO evidence of Hebraic DNA found in any North, Central and South American indiginous human that lived prior to the 15th century.

Given the introduction of European disease, like smallpox, I don't see why there would be. Almost 95% of the population of the Americas were destroyed by this disease. "This population reduction has forever altered the genetics of the surviving groups" (Diamond, 2001).

[_Themis]

Professor Hamblin theorized that given recent archeological and genetic findings, that a small group of emigrating Jews landing haphazardly on the coast of a large and thriving civilization would have eventually had their identity wiped out and there would be nothing left to find. He then looked back into the data, at the thousands of pages of research done by his peers, and saw that no evidence of the Book of Mormon people had been discovered. This confirmed his test hypothesis, thus proving the antiquity of the Book of Mormon.

I can't argue with that logic so I guess I better start believing again.

[Guest]

Given the introduction of European disease, like smallpox, I don't see why there would be. Almost 95% of the population of the Americas were destroyed by this disease. "This population reduction has forever altered the genetics of the surviving groups" (Diamond, 2001).

Not really. Since the two groups are supposed to have arrived around 600 BC and then thrived into large civilizations, by the time Europeans arrived Semitic DNA would have been spread out more then enough to survive. The estimates actually vary from about 50-90%.

[_The Dude]

I would like to add that the Lehite genetic material was diluted to a truly powerful homeopathic 30C strength in the Asian DNA pool already previously present. That is, fewer than one base pair of Lehite DNA is present in a number of Mesoamerican DNA molecules as numerous as the atoms constituting our known galaxy. But as with all true homeopathic remedies, the more dilute the remedy, the more powerful, which just helps us understand how such a truly small group of people so thoroughly dominated the religious and political life of the "others" they encountered upon their arrival, for over 1000 years.

I used to refer to a Limited Genetics Theory but thanks to you, Sethbag, I will now refer to a Homeopathic Genetics Theory. Well done!

[_The Dude]

Professor Hamblin theorized that given recent archeological and genetic findings, that a small group of emigrating Jews landing haphazardly on the coast of a large and thriving civilization would have eventually had their identity wiped out and there would be nothing left to find. He then looked back into the data, at the thousands of pages of research done by his peers, and saw that no evidence of the Book of Mormon people had been discovered. This confirmed his test hypothesis, thus proving the antiquity of the Book of Mormon.

Prof. Hamblin, well known for his sophistry and crap logic, theorizes that an invisible dragon in his garage would have the power to leave no footprints and meld its smell into the musky scent of dust and oil stains. Upon investigation, he noticed that his garage is empty, shows no footprints, and smells only of dust and oil. This confirms his test hypothesis, thus proving the existence of an invisible dragon in his garage. QED The MAD board erupts in cheers of victory! The moderators ban any critic who dares to challenge Prof. Hamblin's proof.

[_Defender]

Here's a little something to chew on Sock Puppet and Kishkumen,

The reason we can’t “identify” Nephite sites is because we lack sufficient texts giving the ancient pronunciation of proper names to allow us to do so. How can we possibly be expected to determine if a particular site is or is not Zarahemla if we do not know the ancient name of that site? It boggles the mind that Anti-Mormons are so thick-headed that they can’t seen this patently obvious fact

Indeed, each one of these sentences is spot on. Your sarcastic analogy Kishkumen, and don't think I expected more from you, was flawed. In your analogy, you neglected to posit volumes upon volumes of empirical research published by those with a vested interest in uncovering the existence of your "galaxy travelers" and failing. Absent this, you would not have proof positive that the travelers "really did" abandon their "sophisticated technology". For instance, suppose a researcher uncovered a piece of technology left behind by the "galaxy travelers"? This would imply that they did not give up the technology as you said and thus falsifying the hypothesis. Likewise, if we were to discover a "NHM" inscribed on a city wall, and this indeed identified "Nahom" as a city, then the Book of Mormon would be falsified at once, given what the Book of Mormon claims for itself regarding its limited scope and the destruction of its civilization and culture as predicted.

Getting that uncomfortable feeling yet?

[_Morley]

Given the introduction of European disease, like smallpox, I don't see why there would be. Almost 95% of the population of the Americas were destroyed by this disease. "This population reduction has forever altered the genetics of the surviving groups" (Diamond, 2001).

For what it's worth, I don't think that's a Jared Diamond quote. I think you might mean FAIR (or Ash or someone else) quoting Michael Crawford.

And I don't think it was 95% of the indigenous population that smallpox wiped out. That number might be a little high. (That wouldn't have left anyone for Europeans to murder through more conventional means.)

[_schreech]

Here's a little something to chew on Sock Puppet and Kishkumen,

The reason we can’t “identify” Nephite sites is because we lack sufficient texts giving the ancient pronunciation of proper names to allow us to do so. How can we possibly be expected to determine if a particular site is or is not Zarahemla if we do not know the ancient name of that site? It boggles the mind that Anti-Mormons are so thick-headed that they can’t seen this patently obvious fact

Indeed, each one of these sentences is spot on. Your sarcastic analogy Kishkumen, and don't think I expected more from you, was flawed. In your analogy, you neglected to posit volumes upon volumes of empirical research published by those with a vested interest in uncovering the existence of your "galaxy travelers" and failing. Absent this, you would not have proof positive that the travelers "really did" abandon their "sophisticated technology". For instance, suppose a researcher uncovered a piece of technology left behind by the "galaxy travelers"? This would imply that they did not give up the technology as you said and thus falsifying the hypothesis. Likewise, if we were to discover a "NHM" inscribed on a city wall, and this indeed identified "Nahom" as a city, then the Book of Mormon would be falsified at once, given what the Book of Mormon claims for itself regarding its limited scope and the destruction of its civilization and culture as predicted.

Getting that uncomfortable feeling yet?

[_asbestosman]

by the time Europeans arrived semantic DNA would have been spread out more then enough to survive.

?

Semitic?

;)

Anyhow, that would assume that they intermixed instead of mostly sticking together through inbreeding (more incestuous than European royalty was). One might assume, given certain passages in the Book of Mormon that there are plenty of literal offspring even today. However, it is possible that the Book of Mormon speaks to adopted descendants instead of literal flesh and blood descendants.

That was a close one, but the dragon remains unfalsifiable.