Conscientious Alternative to Mormonism

[_Themis]

The ideas of Christlike life are not solely Christian, and don't need religion, LDS or other, to live that way. We do so for many other reasons. I think MCB's earlier post may be the best one in this thread.

You didn't answer my question. Why should a person with a conscience live a Christ-like life?

Could you define in your own words what you mean by conscience? I can't really know until then what you want.

[_Buffalo]

How do you know the supernatural elements of the Christ narrative weren’t added for the benefit of those people who can’t understand that being nice to each other is its own reward?

How do you know they weren't added for other, less altruistic reasons?

That's an entirely different question. Which is fine, of course. But you asked if one can be a "Christian" and not believe that God has intervened in His creation (supernatural). I say "no" for several reasons.

At the risk of disrupting Kevin's genuine lineof questions... I would say, first, that you've added a new element to the equation. Rewards. So are we talking about being a Christian? Or getting rewards? Because if it's the latter, then we're on to something else.

But to your question. It would seem reasonable to me that if what you described did occur, we would have competing writings that would explicitly and completely deny the supernatural elements of scripture.

Now if you're intention is to parse my words as a rhetorical device to gain some sort of advantage, don't bother. But that's a bit of my thinking.

The supernatural/perfect/amazing nature of Christ DOES seem to get more impressive with each retelling. By the Gospel of John, Jesus is God and Superman whereas in Mark, Jesus is a lot more human, less miraculous, and less clever at debate.

[_beastie]

I've read posts by a lot of people who scoff at the idea that anyone in their right mind would take seriously the claims of the LDS Church. If the LDS Church really is so bad, then what is the conscientious alternative to it? If believing God lives and that God has chosen Monson as His spokesman to the world is really such a bad idea, then what should people with a conscience do instead?

Your question presumes a sort of moral superiority in Mormonism that has yet to be proven.

Just as one example, think of what the LDS church could have done for some third world country if it had invested over a billion dollars into it rather than City Creek Mall.

[_Nightlion]

Which will prove more valuable to mankind in the long run, Mormonism or the theory or relativity?

Nobody on this thread seems to know. I've been trying for some time to get someone to post an explanation why anything would be a conscientious improvement over Mormonism, and nobody's given me anything that offers a long-term solution to humanity's serious problems.

Oh, well then, Zion is the obvious choice. Zion would be the original Mormonism done right. That has never even been attempted yet. Wont be by the LDS Church ever. There is a lock on that.
If in my wildest dream the world sought after and accomplished the gospel right and Zion happened, it would solve ALL the world's problems. But then kids come into the world who do not have any faith and screw it up. You got to get Zion for yourself. There is not growing up Zion. To get the power of Zion each person must come unto Christ with full purpose of heart and acting no hypocrisy wait upon the Lord, taking no other thought for their life while they honor God with their undeviating attention, faith, repentance, prayers, and striving to be as charitable and forgiving as they can on their own, until God is moved and the power of the gospel is visited with the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. Thence cometh Zion and no other way can it come. Well, unless the Lord send the City of Enoch back so that the earth is not utterly wasted at his coming. Or causes the earth to travail and bring forth her strength that Zion is born in a day. Zion from beneath, Zion from above, Zion from The Apocalrock Visitor Center. All good.

Please respond, I would love to hear what anyone thinks about an actual Zion.

[_lulu]

Please respond, I would love to hear what anyone thinks about an actual Zion.

Utopias have a way of becoming despotic distopias

[_Nightlion]

Please respond, I would love to hear what anyone thinks about an actual Zion.

Utopias have a way of becoming despotic distopias

Awe, but this is why Zion is founded upon a rock of change within man. That change endures and only enhances throughout life. If the rising generation problem can be managed Zion could well endure a thousand years. The Millennium is promised for that long before men begin again to deny their God.

D&C 29: 22
22 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you that when the thousand years are ended, and men again begin to deny their God, then will I spare the earth but for a little season;

[_Corpsegrinder]

How do you know the supernatural elements of the Christ narrative weren’t added for the benefit of those people who can’t understand that being nice to each other is its own reward?

How do you know they weren't added for other, less altruistic reasons?

That's an entirely different question. Which is fine, of course. But you asked if one can be a "Christian" and not believe that God has intervened in His creation (supernatural). I say "no" for several reasons.

This question is important because the humanitarian example of Jesus is more palpable than the supernatural aspects of the Christ myth--proving the existence of said supernatural forces is extremely problematic, as I’m sure you're aware.

In short, you seem to be saying that Mainstream Christianity condemns me to hell despite the fact that A) I acknowledge the humanitarian value of Christ's example, and B) I at least try to follow that example. It seems to me that Mainstream Christianity teaches that a belief in supernatural phenomena is more important than personal righteousness.

At the risk of disrupting Kevin's genuine lineof questions... I would say, first, that you've added a new element to the equation. Rewards. So are we talking about being a Christian? Or getting rewards? Because if it's the latter, then we're on to something else.

Rewards and punishment is an important part of Christianity. E.g., Heaven = eternal reward; Hell = eternal punishment.

But to your question. It would seem reasonable to me that if what you described did occur, we would have competing writings that would explicitly and completely deny the supernatural elements of scripture.

I’ll go with Buffalo’s response, here.

Now if you're intention is to parse my words as a rhetorical device to gain some sort of advantage, don't bother...

Wouldn't dream of it! :)

[_lulu]

Utopias have a way of becoming despotic distopias

of change within man.

Proof this is possible?

[_mikwut]

Kevinsim,

But why would anyone conclude that Christianity is a conscientious alternative to Mormonism?

Because you admitted in your OP that you believe in God (..."if believing God lives".....[from the op]). Mormonism has been shown to be false empirically (Deutero Isaish, Book of Abraham, etc...), Revelatorily (Blacks priesthood and other social messes, no meaningfully substantive revelation to speak of since its founder), spiritually (the general memberships lack of charity and real Christ like love to their fellow man being any greater than others contrasted to the blessings and spirit they claim to have), psychologically - (the unhealth of so many of the teachings and psychological expression of many members), Historically - (the 116 pages, revelations matching current personal needs i.e. Nauvoo, polygamy, contents of revelations found in 19th century milieau), morally (polygamy, treatment towards women, homosexuality, racist ideas, etc..) we could go on here.

Someone controlled by conscience who is honest and upright would clearly see those issues for what they are. None of those issues have anything to do with whether God exists or not so I can only assume you would remain a believer in God. Hence Christianity is a conscientious alternative to Mormonism.

mikwut

[_MCB]

Someone controlled by conscience who is honest and upright would clearly see those issues for what they are. None of those issues have anything to do with whether God exists or not so I can only assume you would remain a believer in God. Hence Christianity is a conscientious alternative to Mormonism.

The best conclusion. However, many ex-Mormons will then argue that it is not the only alternative. My counter is for them to examine all the alternatives. (While I believe that it is the best.) Because they have been forced into a lifestyle that is not of their choosing, if one expresses the belief that Christianity is the best there may be a hostile response.