M&G Lays Some Serious Smack Down on Why Me

[_Kishkumen]

I don't think she was un-Christian, no. I do think that generally, war is less effective at winning hearts and minds. So I guess it depends on your aim.

In terms of individual relationships, when I'm "under attack", I have to decide if I'm looking to end the conflict or to end the animosity. In most cases, because I do genuinely care about other people, I care more about the relationship than about scoring points in an argument.

And anyway, what good does it do to score points with someone who has already stopped listening to you?

Well, I suppose if feeding your own ego is your goal, then you will keep writing long after it does anyone any real good.

I have to say that I don't have much sympathy for Ray's challenge. No one is to say that God's plan for you or me is that we play the part of Joan of Arc, even if Joan were right. If one speaks in generalities based on specific cases like that, then one might be tempted to ask why you haven't translated the sealed portion of the plates.

And yet we don't.

[_Chap]

...

Good night, people.

Thanks, Ray - I know life is tough for you, so niceness from you deserves more credit than from many of the rest of us.

[_mercyngrace]

Get MnG to work three or four night shifts as a cab driver, even though females never work these shifts (guess why?). Then let's see how far "love" goes. While one or two in a hundred "may" respond to "love", you're going to be eating cow dung for meals if you let them over-run you by "showing love". They're not going to pay, if you come across as a "softie". Guaranteed!

So I have to confess I'm cynical about "loving everyone" equally.

I don't envy you, Ray. My great-uncle was a cab driver and I vividly remember how exhausted he always looked. He was fortunate to work for a service in a small town so most people were decent to him, knowing him personally, but it was a hand to mouth existence. My mom worked 3rd shift in a textile mill most of her adult life and I worked the same shift the summer before college. Even being surrounded by friends, just the toll of those hours on a body is hard enough without the added stress of dealing with people who are difficult.

[_Kishkumen]

I don't envy you, Ray. My great-uncle was a cab driver and I vividly remember how exhausted he always looked. He was fortunate to work for a service in a small town so most people were decent to him, knowing him personally, but it was a hand to mouth existence. My mom worked 3rd shift in a textile mill most of her adult life and I worked the same shift the summer before college. Even being surrounded by friends, just the toll of those hours on a body is hard enough without the added stress of dealing with people who are difficult.

Ray is one of the finest people on the boards. My disagreements with Ray are not of the kind I would consider any impediment to my full, enthusiastic friendship for him. I hope I can always say that Ray Agostini is my friend. If he should ever feel otherwise, I will make it my business to repair the breach.

[_MCB]

Re St. Joan d'Arc:

There are situations where caring about the relationship, forgiveness, distaste for animosity, desire for peace no longer are strong enough arguments for trying to get along. Particularly when 'the other' will no longer listen, or discount everything you say, or continue to violate your basic rights. At that point, it is time to terminate the relationship, step back, assess the damages, and determine the next course of action. In today's word, violence is far down the list of options. It is only for the impulsive. Self-defense, however, is another issue. All other options must be exhausted before self-defense is justified.

[_mercyngrace]

I missed this comment yesterday but having read it, I feel obliged to respond for the sake of clarity.

I admit I have not read that thread very closely, but I kind of got the impression that MnG was implicitly "laying some smack down" on DCP and FARMS too, without actually naming names.

I'll post here the same thing I posted on the other board:

I have only a superficial knowledge of the personalities, history, and articles being discussed.

I'm almost embarrassed to say - given how much this matters to so many of you - but I rarely read book reviews anywhere (if I want to know if a book is worthwhile, I'll read it myself) and I use FAIR in the same way I use several anti-Mormon sites, not for any editorializing but because I'm looking for references so I can do my own research. Maybe a low brow approach but it works for me...

I try to live online like I do in real life, in other words WYSIWYG. I've been accused of all kinds of things on message boards and most of the time, I'm reading about myself thinking "I don't know who that gal is but I really don't like her!" The fact is, though, people often project their own feelings into the words and actions of others. If you do that with me, you're bound to get it wrong.

Peace in the journey!
MnG

[_stemelbow]

WYSIWYG

May I ask?

[_mercyngrace]

WYSIWYG

May I ask?

Sorry. What you see is what you get.

[_Darth J]

Ray:

While we could all debate the merits of how Christian Joan of Arc was, let's frame the issue in terms more pertinent to our current times.

Do you think the space aliens that are visiting our planet are hiding themselves because they're peaceful and don't want to cause problems, like E.T.? Or is it because they are biding their time and plotting violence against us, like the Martians in War of the Worlds?

[_RayAgostini]

And anyway, what good does it do to score points with someone who has already stopped listening to you?

Good point, and I agree, which is why I seldom post at any great length on MBs anymore (not just this one, though I will get involved with "new developments" at times, such as the recent Dehlin controversy). It becomes like Ground Hog Day. Maybe I'm just getting old, and tired.