Flip Side of the Coin

[_KevinSim]

This sounds like one of Darth J's sock puppets, making totally absurd, and yet overly orthodox statements of faith.

You’re out of touch statements about gay suicide in the church are also a bit too out of touch to believe.

If it were not for your OP testimony, I'd call you a troll.

RockSlider, I don't think I'm a troll!

In all seriousness, I really want to discuss the issues this thread has brought up, and I'm pretty sure that disqualifies me from being a troll. A troll is someone who doesn't post serious opinions on the issues, and just wants to say things to provoke people; isn't that what a troll is?

What is it about my "statements about gay suicide in the church" that sounds "too out of touch" to you?

[_KevinSim]

Sounds like a neat recipe for a theocracy.

I really hope that Romney does not think this way ...

I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

[_KevinSim]

or you could stop pretending that it's not abundantly clear what I'm refering to.

There's no pretending involved. It's not "abundantly clear what" you're referring to.

Look, Palerobber, in the OP I came out and stated that I have Asperger Syndrome. One good description of AS is a lack of common sense. So what might be abundantly clear to you is not abundantly clear to me.

I could speculate that your statement about official discrimination refers to the LDS Church's policy on gay marriage, but in making that speculation I feel like I'm going way out on a limb. Is that what you're referring to, or do you mean something else entirely? Because if it's something else entirely I really have no idea what you're talking about.

[_KevinSim]

Kevin, I can understand how it was you missed it.
What I said enters a Mormons mind overwritten by years of confabulations. You cannot comprehend these words as plain as they are because you need a leader to explain them before the code is broken and the blinders come off and your ears hear and your heart is penetrated and the possibility of your repentance is nigh.

Nightlion, why should I believe this?

TAKE THIS TO YOUR LEADERS

Again, I'm curious; why should I take this statement to my leaders?

[_KevinSim]

You have already admitted you will view the church as true regardless of any evidence. That's the real difference between us.

I have indicated that I will believe in the existence of God, regardless of any evidence. When have I ever said that I "will view the church as true regardless of any evidence"?

[_Yoda]

or you could stop pretending that it's not abundantly clear what I'm refering to.

There's no pretending involved. It's not "abundantly clear what" you're referring to.

Look, Palerobber, in the OP I came out and stated that I have Asperger Syndrome. One good description of AS is a lack of common sense. So what might be abundantly clear to you is not abundantly clear to me.

I could speculate that your statement about official discrimination refers to the LDS Church's policy on gay marriage, but in making that speculation I feel like I'm going way out on a limb. Is that what you're referring to, or do you mean something else entirely? Because if it's something else entirely I really have no idea what you're talking about.

No worries, Kevin. I'm not exactly sure what he is talking about, either.

[_Yoda]

This sounds like one of Darth J's sock puppets, making totally absurd, and yet overly orthodox statements of faith.

You’re out of touch statements about gay suicide in the church are also a bit too out of touch to believe.

If it were not for your OP testimony, I'd call you a troll.

RockSlider, I don't think I'm a troll!

In all seriousness, I really want to discuss the issues this thread has brought up, and I'm pretty sure that disqualifies me from being a troll. A troll is someone who doesn't post serious opinions on the issues, and just wants to say things to provoke people; isn't that what a troll is?

What is it about my "statements about gay suicide in the church" that sounds "too out of touch" to you?

I am actually curious about this, myself, Rock. I thought Kevin's views were pretty insightful. He stated that it would be better for someone to leave the Church and stay alive rather than to stay in the Chuch and commit suicide. I agree with him that God would rather have that scenario as well.

[_Themis]

I asked my question in full faith that a good God was in control of the universe that wanted me to know Her/His will, that was able to answer prayers. That God must know that if I asked Her/Him a question and that God didn't give me an answer, then I would never have any way of ever knowing that God's will. So that God would answer.

The direct answer to your question is that if I got the mentioned "burst of spiritual static" or if Loki gave me an answer to mess me up, then in either of those two cases I would have gotten two answers, not one. Spiritual static might (I presume) come up any time, and might not any time, and Loki might insert his mischief any time, and might not any time; but the good God who controls the universe would answer every time someone asks a foundational question, due to that God's goodness. That God will answer because S/He knows the asker needs an answer.

I didn't get two answers; I got one answer; and therefore I conclude that my answer came from the mentioned good God.

By your own reasoning your God does not exist since people are not getting answers to foundational questions or they are getting conflicting answers.

[_Themis]

You have already admitted you will view the church as true regardless of any evidence. That's the real difference between us.

I have indicated that I will believe in the existence of God, regardless of any evidence. When have I ever said that I "will view the church as true regardless of any evidence"?

I am not sure you did, but then it still amounts to the same from your perspective of what you are wanting and choosing to believe in. This is what we call self deception. I will get back to my other post in a couple of days.

[_RockSlider]

I am actually curious about this, myself, Rock. I thought Kevin's views were pretty insightful. He stated that it would be better for someone to leave the Church and stay alive rather than to stay in the Chuch and commit suicide. I agree with him that God would rather have that scenario as well.

His statmentments before quoting from the book or whatever, seemed to have no empathy or understanding of just how damaging the church/families can be ... for example:


"Suicides among gay Mormons puzzle me. If I was sexually oriented toward men in such a way that no matter how hard I fought it I was still homosexually attracted, I honestly doubt I would kill myself. Why do gay Mormons in large numbers kill themselves?"

"and yet many of them do kill themselves, you say. Why do they kill themselves? Like I said, if I found out I was gay I wouldn't kill myself. Why do those large numbers of gay Mormons kill themselves?"

"My guess is that I would find out I was gay by realizing I was more sexually attracted to men than I am sexually attracted to my wife. Hopefully I would have found that out before I got married!"

And don't get me started on the the 5 billion dollar justification of fixing "urban blight" of all places ... in SLC Utah (which relatively speaking has no urban blight)

also note a pm was sent noting that I'm timp and expressing interest in Kevin responding elsewhere as well.