So what you're saying is, if I pray to the Mormon god to tell me if all of this is true, he won't answer, just because I don't' believe in him at that point?
There's some issues going on there don't ya think?
I think the answer is a little more nuanced than that. I think it's that one must approach god sincerely. It's the difference between "Hi Mormon god, I don't believe in you but I have a few questions for you" "And Hi god. I want to know if the Mormon stuff is true. Will you tell me?"
Something like that.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
So what you're saying is, if I pray to the Mormon god to tell me if all of this is true, he won't answer, just because I don't' believe in him at that point?
There's some issues going on there don't ya think?
I think the answer is a little more nuanced than that. I think it's that one must approach god sincerely. It's the difference between "Hi Mormon god, I don't believe in you but I have a few questions for you" "And Hi god. I want to know if the Mormon stuff is true. Will you tell me?"
Something like that.
Ok, that's cool, I smell what you're steppin in, but.............
How about....Hi Mormon god. I don't know if you're real, or if I'm talking to myself but.......insert question here....?
Ok, that's cool, I smell what you're steppin in, but.............
How about....Hi Mormon god. I don't know if you're real, or if I'm talking to myself but.......insert question here....?[/quote]
I dunno. Might depend on the question. If it's along the lines of "are you real?" "Is Mormonism true." Is suppose the answer would be yes. If it's "Where are my car keys" or "Why were you such a dick in the Old Testament?" I'd guess not.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Brad Hudson wrote: I dunno. Might depend on the question. If it's along the lines of "are you real?" "Is Mormonism true." Is suppose the answer would be yes. If it's "Where are my car keys" or "Why were you such a dick in the Old Testament?" I'd guess not.
So you're saying he doesn't own up to what he's done?
by the way: Either Tobin's head exploded, or he's on his way to his bishop's to confess his inappropriate behavior(s).....lol
Chap wrote:Hello Tobin's deity. I gather that it is really important for me to know whether Mormonism is true or not. If it IS true, please tell me now, and I shall adjust my life accordingly ... hello?
(Crickets chirping ... never mind, he'll be along in a minute.)
It's horrible.
First there was a kind of babbling noise, like a celestial call centre, and then I heard this Indian accented voice saying "Hello? I'm putting you on hold". Then ever since then I have had this endless loop playing in my head over and over again, saying "Your request for enlightenment is important to us. Unfortunately, we have been experiencing a high volume of calls since human beings invented religion in the Pleistocene. But please hang on, and one of our agents will be with you in a few eons." Then I get the Hallelujah chorus sung by the Motab choir for five minutes, then the message repeats ... over and over ...
AND I CAN'T HANG UP ....
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Chap wrote:Hello Tobin's deity. I gather that it is really important for me to know whether Mormonism is true or not. If it IS true, please tell me now, and I shall adjust my life accordingly ... hello?
(Crickets chirping ... never mind, he'll be along in a minute.)
It's horrible.
First there was a kind of babbling noise, like a celestial call centre, and then I heard this Indian accented voice saying "Hello? I'm putting you on hold". Then ever since then I have had this endless loop playing in my head over and over again, saying "Your request for enlightenment is important to us. Unfortunately, we have been experiencing a high volume of calls since human beings invented religion in the Pleistocene. But please hang on, and one of our agents will be with you in a few eons." Then I get the Hallelujah chorus sung by the Motab choir for five minutes, then the message repeats ... over and over ...
AND I CAN'T HANG UP ....
It'll hang up when you run out of minutes on your plan. Verizon don't play!!
Chap wrote:Hello Tobin's deity. I gather that it is really important for me to know whether Mormonism is true or not. If it IS true, please tell me now, and I shall adjust my life accordingly ... hello?
(Crickets chirping ... never mind, he'll be along in a minute.)
It's horrible.
First there was a kind of babbling noise, like a celestial call centre, and then I heard this Indian accented voice saying "Hello? I'm putting you on hold". Then ever since then I have had this endless loop playing in my head over and over again, saying "Your request for enlightenment is important to us. Unfortunately, we have been experiencing a high volume of calls since human beings invented religion in the Pleistocene. But please hang on, and one of our agents will be with you in a few eons." Then I get the Hallelujah chorus sung by the Motab choir for five minutes, then the message repeats ... over and over ...
AND I CAN'T HANG UP ....
I think God may have answered you, Chap.
Eternity on hold would certainly be my definition of Hell.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
Chap wrote:Hello Tobin's deity. I gather that it is really important for me to know whether Mormonism is true or not. If it IS true, please tell me now, and I shall adjust my life accordingly ... hello?
(Crickets chirping ... never mind, he'll be along in a minute.)
It's horrible.
First there was a kind of babbling noise, like a celestial call centre, and then I heard this Indian accented voice saying "Hello? I'm putting you on hold". Then ever since then I have had this endless loop playing in my head over and over again, saying "Your request for enlightenment is important to us. Unfortunately, we have been experiencing a high volume of calls since human beings invented religion in the Pleistocene. But please hang on, and one of our agents will be with you in a few eons." Then I get the Hallelujah chorus sung by the Motab choir for five minutes, then the message repeats ... over and over ...
Brad Hudson wrote: I dunno. Might depend on the question. If it's along the lines of "are you real?" "Is Mormonism true." Is suppose the answer would be yes. If it's "Where are my car keys" or "Why were you such a dick in the Old Testament?" I'd guess not.
So you're saying he doesn't own up to what he's done?
by the way: Either Tobin's head exploded, or he's on his way to his bishop's to confess his inappropriate behavior(s).....lol
If I understand correctly, the answer to that question is the one he gave to Job: who the hell are you to criticize me? But I still think the correct answer is that god wouldn't answer that question from you. Or from me.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Tobin wrote:Actually, you have failed repeatedly to respond or understand what I've repeatedly pointed out to you. Here we have many examples of eye-witnesses that tell VARYING stories about many of the details of Christ's life.
You're comparing apples and oranges you dip wad.
1 person, telling 9 different versions of the same lie versus 4 persons telling their story from their own perspective.
Are you saying holy hot crotch joe had at least 9 perspectives on the same issue, or event? He couldn't even get the number of personages right from version to version. Don't you think that is a key issue, or are you going with the illogical leap that all of them are correct?
What's the difference if it is one person or 4 people are doing it? According to your broken premise, everyone should have a perfect recollection of events and NEVER contradict themselves or others. It's completely absurd.
hobo1512 wrote:
Tobin wrote:Actually, I'm just pointing out that your position is idiotic. Just like your new request for irrefutable proof is. Do you know nothing about Mormonism? You can get that any time you want by speaking to God about this. Mormons don't believe Joseph Smith because of what he claimed, but because God backs him up.
But yet, you haven't provided ANY proof, irrefutable or not. I know plenty about Mormonism, hence pointing out the illogical leaps and mental gymnastics that one has to go through in order to be a "good" Mormon.
God backs him up? LOL.. ok, where are the plates? Where is the DNA proof? Where is the proof of these so called ancient civilizations? Don't you think the Mormon god would have helped ya'll out with those by now?
You really shouldn't come to a battle of wits unarmed......just sayin
Speak with God. God has the plates. Ask him to show them to you if you really want to see them. This is test of faith in God. Clearly something you fail at utterly.
And don't move the goal posts. DNA evidence is so much garbage. The Lehites were one small group that lived here. And there are plenty of ruins of these ancient civilizations existing in the Americas and we have the Book of Mormon telling us about one of these (among many). Just like the Bible was set in the ancient world, so was the Book of Mormon. And just like the Bible, we have little proof of the existence of ancient Biblical figures and events (Abraham, Moses, splitting the Red Sea and so on) existing today. That DOES NOT mean they did not exist or the event never happened however. It is just more flawed thinking from you.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
