John Gee, Historian

[_ldsfaqs]

That seems to have let him down when asked, under oath, about how many wives he had...

That is not what he was asked.... He was asked if he and the Church practiced "Polygamy" at the time.
He and the Church did not. They only practiced the Sealing Ordinance at the time.
Thus, he told the truth.

[_Kishkumen]

I would also like to point out that everyone is arguing that Joseph clearly knew the Bible well.

Obvious bull puckey. Gee clearly states that Joseph Smith was ignorant of the Bible, and he uses the very late statement of Whitmer to promote that incorrect view. Joseph Smith states that he spent a great deal of time "searching the scriptures" from the age of 12. Gee neglects to cite this important source for a reason: he is deliberately misrepresenting the truth.

[_I have a question]

That seems to have let him down when asked, under oath, about how many wives he had...

That is not what he was asked.... He was asked if he and the Church practiced "Polygamy" at the time.
He and the Church did not. They only practiced the Sealing Ordinance at the time.
Thus, he told the truth.

1844
"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can. This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man does not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this...I wish the grand jury would tell me who they are - whether it will be a curse or blessing to me. I am quite tired of the fools asking me...What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."
(Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, pp. 410-411)

[_ldsfaqs]

Other than being a youth and it's what youth do, for the Treasure Hunting.... he was starting to have his higher sight, and so he used it, and actually was successful,

You've made this claim before, you were asked to provide evidence of Joseph being successful at treasure seeking, you are yet to do so...

This page indicates some of the testimony of the "examination" of the so-called "glass looking trial".
Some individuals indicate Joseph was successful.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Question:_What ... looking%22

[_ldsfaqs]

I would also like to point out that everyone is arguing that Joseph clearly knew the Bible well.

Obvious bull puckey. Gee clearly states that Joseph Smith was ignorant of the Bible, and he uses the very late statement of Whitmer to promote that incorrect view. Joseph Smith states that he spent a great deal of time "searching the scriptures" from the age of 12. Gee neglects to cite this important source for a reason: he is deliberately misrepresenting the truth.

False..... There are several statements which testify to the effect even from Joseph that he wasn't well read of the Bible while young.

Further, you misrepresent what he actually said.

Quote:
"It was a two year period. In his earliest written account of the First Vision, Joseph indicated that from about the age of 12 he had "concerns for the welfare of my immortal soul, which led me to searching the scriptures, . . . [and] pondered many things in my heart concerning the situation of the world".

It does not state that he "spent a great deal of time".
It simply states that in some degree and moments of his youth he searched the scriptures.
Note how it also doesn't say he read the scriptures, nor read them beginning to end.

It seems clear that he in some degree simply picked up the book and read, looked up topics, etc.

Picking up the scriptures and searching them doesn't equal someone being "well read", spending a lot of time reading them.

Again though, that doesn't mean he didn't know them, and eventually really knew them, and it seems it came natural, not that he was always just reading the Bible. Thus, it would seem he had some sort of photographic memory.

[_ldsfaqs]

1844
"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can. This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man does not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this...I wish the grand jury would tell me who they are - whether it will be a curse or blessing to me. I am quite tired of the fools asking me...What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."
(Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, pp. 410-411)

Joseph did in fact only have one Temporal Wife..... it was Emma.
Note also he was being accused of Adultery. He says he was innocent.

Note also that they don't in this case accuse him of practicing Polygamy.
They accuse him of "Spiritual Wifeism"..... which is funny, because the anti-mormons then are actually backing up my statement, that Joseph only practiced the "Sealing Ordinance"..... a.k.a. spiritual wifeism, not Polygamy.

So, it's really funny that you quote this, because your own anti-mormon brothers are debunking your belief of Joseph, while supporting mine. haahhhahahahaha

[_Doctor Steuss]

This page indicates some of the testimony of the "examination" of the so-called "glass looking trial".
Some individuals indicate Joseph was successful.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Question:_What ... looking%22

I think Josiah Stowell's testimony will always be my favorite.

Mr. Bacon burying some money and that Joseph described how there was a feather buried with the money. They found the feather but the money was gone.

LOL!

ETA: I like how the FAIR article doesn't say why the money was gone. That it "likely moved down" according to the testimony. Those treasures and money were sure slippery.

I also love the little gold ore note. The actual testimony reads:

that prisoner had looked through said stone for Deacon Attelon, for a mine - did not exactly find it, but got a piece of ore, which resembled gold, he thinks

Hired to find a mine. Found something, which looked like gold… he thinks. SUCCESS!

[_Symmachus]

Hi Manetho,

Thanks for your enlightening comment and offering a more informed perspective. Part of my perception of Egyptology, I guess, comes from looking at it next to other humanities disciplines, but that sort of comparison might be skewing things and distorting what's been in going on in Egyptology and developing on its own terms.

Do you know much about Gee's work? I thought Egyptian religion was sort of his specialty and so, in light of what you're saying about how that particular field has changed, we should expect a little bit more theoretical sophistication from John Gee. Is his Egyptological work in line with developments in that part of the field, or does he take an older school approach there as he does in blogging about the Bible and early Mormon history?

[_Kevin Graham]

My favorite part was the sacrificing of animals to help find the gold and silver.

In an affidavit published in 1834, William Stafford, one of the neighbors of the Smith family, reported the following:

Joseph Smith, Sen., came to me one night, and told me that Joseph Smith Jr. had been looking in his glass, and had seen, not many rods from his house, two or three kegs of gold and silver… Joseph, Sen. first made a circle, twelve or fourteen feet in diameter. This circle, said he, contains the treasure. He then stuck in the ground a row of witch hazel sticks, around the said circle, for the purpose of keeping off the evil spirits. Within this circle he made another, of about eight or ten feet in diameter. He walked around three times on the periphery of this last circle, muttering to himself something which I could not understand. He next stuck a steel rod in the centre of the circles, and then enjoined profound silence upon us, lest we should arouse the evil spirit who had the charge of these treasures. After we had dug a trench about five feet in depth around the rod, the old man… went to the house to inquire of young Joseph the cause of our disappointment. He soon returned and said, that Joseph had remained all this time in the house, looking in his stone and watching the motions of the evil spirit – that he saw the spirit come up to the ring and as soon as it beheld the cone which we had formed around the rod, it caused the money to sink… another time, they devised a scheme, by which they might satiate their hunger, with the mutton of one of my sheep. They had seen in my flock a sheep, a large, fat, black weather. Old Joseph and one of the boys came to me one day, and said that Joseph Jr. had discovered some very remarkable and valuable treasures, which could be procured only in one way. That way, was as follows: – That a black sheep should be taken to the ground where the treasures were concealed – that after cutting its throat, it should be led around in a circle while bleeding. This being done, the wrath of the evil spirit would be appeased: the treasures could then be obtained, and my share of them was to be four fold. To gratify my curiosity, I let them have a large fat sheep. They afterwards informed me, that the sheep was killed pursuant to commandment; but as there was some mistake in the process, it did not have the desired effect. This, I believe, is the only time they ever made money-digging a profitable business. (Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 2, pp.59-61)

[_suniluni2]

Joseph did in fact only have one Temporal Wife..... it was Emma.

Did he say "Temporal," I didn't see that?

Note also he was being accused of Adultery. He says he was innocent.

He did not say he was innocent, he said he was "as innocent as I was fourteen years ago".

Note also that they don't in this case accuse him of practicing Polygamy.
They accuse him of "Spiritual Wifeism"..... which is funny, because the anti-mormons then are actually backing up my statement, that Joseph only practiced the "Sealing Ordinance"..... a.k.a. spiritual wifeism, not Polygamy.

So the Sealing Ordinance is only for spiritual wifeism? What about the Sealing Ordinance today, what does that do?

So to summarize - you're saying that Joseph had more than one spiritual wife, but only one temporal wife, and that's why he wasn't practicing polygamy, and wasn't lying when he said he only had one wife. Is that what you're saying?