Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Res Ipsa
_Emeritus
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote: There is a lawyer in my state who has aggressively and successfully sued the LDS church and its clergy in child abuse cases. And I don't live in the Morridor.

Interesting. Just to make sure I understand terminology, when you say successfully sued does that mean a court case with public records, or would it also include settling out of court? I ask because it would be interesting to look at public court records.


I'm not sure whether he has had to try any of his cases. I know he has gotten some very good settlements. If I get a chance, I'll see if he has a webpage that lists verdicts.

In my state, less than 2% of filed civil cases actually go to trial. There is a high incentive for sex abuse cases to be settled, regardless of who is the defendant.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Res Ipsa
_Emeritus
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Lemmie, here's an article on his first verdict against the church in Washington. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/6351 ... tml?pg=all

And here is his webpage: http://kosnoff.com/latterdaysaints.php
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Rosebud
_Emeritus
Posts: 1088
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:04 pm

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Rosebud »

Res Ipsa wrote:I don't know what to make of the divorce funding. My ex and I both worked. I earned more, so I think I paid a share of her fees. But I also think her folks paid for her share. I think they did it to show support for her and to help her through a rough time. I paid mine out of my pocket. But my family did give me a place to live for a couple of months. Families help out where they can. So I don't really see the funding of the divorce as evidence either way.


Agreed... I've seen lots of great ways couples worked together to make the funding of the divorce fair.

The red flag that's jumping out at me is that Karren is claiming the fact that Miklesen helped his daughter pay for the divorce is a way that K was victimized by M and by extension, because of M's calling, the church. M had every right to help his daughter in a time of need and it seems logical that M would have appreciated not having to fork money over. Having women without incomes is also the fault of the culture and can give abusive men another handle over their wives. I see it again and again. Women can't get away from men who treat them horribly because they don't have the money for the attorney retainer and the men intentionally keep money from them and even spend money so that the retainers can't be paid. Access to bank accounts and credit cards is denied, etc. Women are told that to get away they must abandon their children and get jobs (EDIT: meaning their husbands say, "this divorce is your idea so you need to move out and earn money to pay your attorney because these kids are mine and I'm not leaving"), but they don't have the degrees and resumes that their husbands do. It is hard to watch.

We don't know what happened in this situation, but the claim that K was a victim of M or the church because M helped his daughter not only doesn't amount to much but is indicative that K wasn't much of a team player come divorce time and that he's making at least one false he's-the-victim claim that is convincing to some people. Maybe his wife wasn't much of a team player either, we don't know. It only takes one person to turn a divorce into a nightmare for everyone, though. It doesn't look to me like K was a sheep, so either they were both wolves or K was the wolf and his wife the sheep. That's what the fact that M paid for the divorce indicates to me.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Lemmie »

Res Ipsa wrote:Lemmie, here's an article on his first verdict against the church in Washington. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/6351 ... tml?pg=all

And here is his webpage: http://kosnoff.com/latterdaysaints.php

Thank you, that's very nice of you to get me the links!

I see what you mean re: % of filed cases going to court, that puts it into perspective.

(your username used to start w 'b' didn't it? I know we've had some good conversations but I didn't want to presume without making sure it was you.)
_Res Ipsa
_Emeritus
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:Lemmie, here's an article on his first verdict against the church in Washington. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/6351 ... tml?pg=all

And here is his webpage: http://kosnoff.com/latterdaysaints.php

Thank you, that's very nice of you to get me the links!

I see what you mean re: % of filed cases going to court, that puts it into perspective.

(your username used to start w 'b' didn't it? I know we've had some good conversations but I didn't want to presume without making sure it was you.)


Yes, that's me. Had an incident elsewhere that convinced me to change nicks. Nothing to do with good folks here.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Starbuck
_Emeritus
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:29 am

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Starbuck »

We accept the reality of the world with which we're presented. It's as simple as that. ~ Christof
_Mary
_Emeritus
Posts: 1774
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Mary »

Hi Rep Ipsa (waves)

This latest update is interesting. I think he is a busy man and actually doesn't want the limelight. I take him at his word.
He had produced the divorce reasoning from his wife. (exhibit 3c) It is pretty damning stuff in terms of his character. Brave man to do it. Claims of sex abuse were seemingly flying everywhere. What a mess.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _I have a question »

Mary wrote:Hi Rep Ipsa (waves)

This latest update is interesting. I think he is a busy man and actually doesn't want the limelight. I take him at his word.
He had produced the divorce reasoning from his wife. (exhibit 3c) It is pretty damning stuff in terms of his character. Brave man to do it. Claims of sex abuse were seemingly flying everywhere. What a mess.


I'm still of the opinion that if these claims are baseless, somebody would have slapped him with a court order or summons by now. The silence of the accused is deafening. Maybe Mickelson is caught between issuing a denial and adding credence to the claim, or staying silent and adding credence to the claim.
Karren isn't fudging his language and seems to be intent on laying it all out for the world to see.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Mary
_Emeritus
Posts: 1774
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Mary »

Agreed ihaq,

He refers to a couple of cases that coloured his view of the legal workings of Utah. Do you know anything about that??
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_Mary
_Emeritus
Posts: 1774
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Mary »

"Though I was concerned about my daughter, at this point in time I didn’t perceive any sudden danger, and as long as we (my wife, my boys, and I) kept an eye on her, she would be safe.  I wasn’t about to start digging into her brain and presenting possible sexual scenarios.  Right or wrong, it’s what I felt best as a parent.  And I wasn’t about to get the corrupt players of Utah’s Department of Child and Family Services involved (DCFS) involved. From my years of battling with them on Utah’s Capital Hill over the Parker Jensen case and the Dan Thaxton Jr. case, that is the last organization I was going to turn to at this point.  Moreover, I was still the obedient Mormon boy who had pledged my life (literally) to the defend the Church; however, my doctrinal (and therefore spiritual) disposition was slowly deteriorating."
 From Starbuck's link..
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
Post Reply