RFM on Kamp in Court

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pistolero
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

Post by pistolero »

drumdude wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 1:32 pm
Marcus wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 6:21 am

Unsupported??! Where have you been, o flightless one?
Seriously. Also, a lot of Jenn’s filings are text messages from John in his own words, like how much Margi gets paid. I don’t take anything Jenn says as truth but if it comes from John’s mouth, there’s not really any disputing it.
The aspect that frustrates me most isn’t necessarily John Dehlin’s alleged actions, but Jenn Kamp’s complete disregard for the law. This approach does a disservice to any potential future victims of John Dehlin. Regardless of what John Dehlin has allegedly done, acting outside the legal framework not only is unjustifiable but also ironically makes John Dehlin appear as the victim.

From a distance, the behavior of individuals like Rosebud, Jenn Kamp, and others gives me Glenn Close vibes - a dramatic fervor that overshadows the substance of their claims. Despite the seriousness of what John Dehlin may or may not have done, their antics take center stage, turning serious accusations into spectacles.

When the next accuser steps forward, which seems inevitable, there’s a real risk that the court of exmo opinion will dismiss it as just another episode in the ongoing drama. This doesn’t help the cause they aim to support but rather undermines the credibility of genuine grievances.

It's indeed tragic that such a small percentage of abuse allegations lead to convictions. However, I can’t help but feel that this theatrical approach is not the right way to bring about change or justice.
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

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drumdude wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 2:09 pm
Yep. And John couches all of his bad behavior in a costume of caring about women’s rights.

“Hey Jenn I’m super supportive of you and want to be super mindful of your super important feelings, just let me know if it’s ok that I pay you $40 an hour for podcasting and pay Margi $1000 per episode to contribute nothing. I’m super super nice and supportive and care about all women and feelings and I’m so so conscious of my privilege blah blah blah….”
Why do you think Margi contributes nothing to Open Stories?
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

Post by drumdude »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 4:03 pm
drumdude wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 2:09 pm
Yep. And John couches all of his bad behavior in a costume of caring about women’s rights.

“Hey Jenn I’m super supportive of you and want to be super mindful of your super important feelings, just let me know if it’s ok that I pay you $40 an hour for podcasting and pay Margi $1000 per episode to contribute nothing. I’m super super nice and supportive and care about all women and feelings and I’m so so conscious of my privilege blah blah blah….”
Why do you think Margi contributes nothing to Open Stories?
That's just my opinion. Is Margi worth $1000 an episode, in my opinion? No. That's better spent on someone like Natasha Parker, John Larsen, Lindsay Hansen Park, ect. ExMormons who have done real work in the space, not people like John and Margi who have done some life coaching classes.

In the original format, John Dehlin was just some guy and the spotlight was on his guests. I guess John felt self conscious about that and decided to get his PhD to become an expert in something related to his podcast. But Margi's life coach thing? It feels like filler.

If Margi and John want to help people on the side, great. But that's (in my mind) not what Mormon Stories is about. Especially after John used that space to cheat on his wife. It feels disingenuous and gross.
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

Post by Res Ipsa »

pistolero wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 3:42 pm
drumdude wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 1:32 pm


Seriously. Also, a lot of Jenn’s filings are text messages from John in his own words, like how much Margi gets paid. I don’t take anything Jenn says as truth but if it comes from John’s mouth, there’s not really any disputing it.
The aspect that frustrates me most isn’t necessarily John Dehlin’s alleged actions, but Jenn Kamp’s complete disregard for the law. This approach does a disservice to any potential future victims of John Dehlin. Regardless of what John Dehlin has allegedly done, acting outside the legal framework not only is unjustifiable but also ironically makes John Dehlin appear as the victim.

From a distance, the behavior of individuals like Rosebud, Jenn Kamp, and others gives me Glenn Close vibes - a dramatic fervor that overshadows the substance of their claims. Despite the seriousness of what John Dehlin may or may not have done, their antics take center stage, turning serious accusations into spectacles.

When the next accuser steps forward, which seems inevitable, there’s a real risk that the court of exmo opinion will dismiss it as just another episode in the ongoing drama. This doesn’t help the cause they aim to support but rather undermines the credibility of genuine grievances.

It's indeed tragic that such a small percentage of abuse allegations lead to convictions. However, I can’t help but feel that this theatrical approach is not the right way to bring about change or justice.
I watched some of Jenn Kamp's video where she shares her truth about Dehlin. It was so painful to watch that I couldn't get through it. I think her behavior is indicative of some kind of fairly extreme childhood trauma. From what she said, it seems clear to me that going to her parents for support was not an option. Childhood trauma damages people, and the US is crap when it comes to providing the mental health services needed to help people recover from trauma in a way that lets them become functional adults.

Our legal system is the last place I'd ever want to see a traumatized person navigate on their own. It certainly hasn't helped Jenn Kamp. She said something that I think is key in the court hearing that was linked: that she viewed how the court was treating her as an extension of the abuse she had suffered. That gives her a built in excuse to ignore the court. And if she ignores court orders, the legal system will chew her up and spit her out.

It's very hard to watch, let alone have to deal with, a person who is intent on engaging in self-destructive behavior. I can't believe this will end well for anyone involved.
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pistolero
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

Post by pistolero »

drumdude wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 4:21 pm
Doctor Steuss wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 4:03 pm

Why do you think Margi contributes nothing to Open Stories?
That's just my opinion. Is Margi worth $1000 an episode, in my opinion? No. That's better spent on someone like Natasha Parker, John Larsen, Lindsay Hansen Park, ect. ExMormons who have done real work in the space, not people like John and Margi who have done some life coaching classes.

In the original format, John Dehlin was just some guy and the spotlight was on his guests. I guess John felt self conscious about that and decided to get his PhD to become an expert in something related to his podcast. But Margi's life coach thing? It feels like filler.

If Margi and John want to help people on the side, great. But that's (in my mind) not what Mormon Stories is about. Especially after John used that space to cheat on his wife. It feels disingenuous and gross.
I find it’s about the guests rather than the hosts for me. Not sure John Dehlin is a genius particularly. Although I’ve not watched an episode for years if I’m honest.

I can’t say that Margi has ever floated my boat, but she does have a degree and it seems she’s popular. From the depositions, do I understand that Jenn Kamp never finished college? Doesn’t feel completely unfair to pay Margi more. $1000 seems on the high side, but if donors happy with content…

Given the length of MS episodes, $1000 per episode might below the minimum wage. 😈
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

Post by drumdude »

lol true.

The hardest part for me is the hypocrisy. John will rant and rave about nepotism in the Mormon church, about how leaders are inappropriate with women, and then he turns around and does the exact same thing.

I would feel differently if John owned up to what he has done. All he’s ever done is speak about it in vague terms. Mostly he frames it as “enemies” unjustly attacking him.

A 10 hour Mormon Stories episode detailing how he had an inappropriate relationship with Rosebud, and why he hires family members, and how much everyone gets paid and why some former staff might reasonably feel disgruntled, seems to me in order. It would go a long way toward transparency, informed consent, accountability, all the things John shames the Mormon church for lacking.
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

Post by huckelberry »

drumdude wrote:
Fri May 24, 2024 5:12 pm
lol true.

The hardest part for me is the hypocrisy. John will rant and rave about nepotism in the Mormon church, about how leaders are inappropriate with women, and then he turns around and does the exact same thing.

I would feel differently if John owned up to what he has done. All he’s ever done is speak about it in vague terms. Mostly he frames it as “enemies” unjustly attacking him.

A 10 hour Mormon Stories episode detailing how he had an inappropriate relationship with Rosebud, and why he hires family members, and how much everyone gets paid and why some former staff might reasonably feel disgruntled, seems to me in order. It would go a long way toward transparency, informed consent, accountability, all the things John shames the Mormon church for lacking.
drumdude I could apologize for asking you to explain more of what you see when you are wading through piles of stuff. I am not able to watch more than about 10 minutes of John Dehlin. My god how could his bad behavior with Rosebud and pay decisions possibly create something worth 10 hours? I find myself wishing to see a couple paragraphs of concise sentences explaining why he is seen as a bad boss (beyond the obvious bad behavior with Rosebud). Perhaps the situation is too gnarled to allow for this.

Does he wish to demonstrate (commentary on Joseph Smith) that collecting a harem may or may not involve sexual desire? It could also be ego gratification and consolidation of power. He somehow projects a bit of this image to me, fairly or unfairly I do not know.
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

Post by drumdude »

I noticed someone posted Jenn’s court filings on the Rosebud website. They’re available here for anyone interested in sifting through her claims.

http://mormonrosebud.wikidot.com/jenn-kamp-files

They seem to me to fit the pattern of John Dehlin. Not a pattern of abuse and harassment, but a pattern of him being a clueless jackass around women.
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

Post by consiglieri »

Judge Faust ordered Jenn Kamp this morning to take the podcasts and documents down and not have them reposted elsewhere…
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pistolero
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Re: RFM on Kamp in Court

Post by pistolero »

drumdude wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 3:17 am
I noticed someone posted Jenn’s court filings on the Rosebud website. They’re available here for anyone interested in sifting through her claims.

http://mormonrosebud.wikidot.com/jenn-kamp-files

They seem to me to fit the pattern of John Dehlin. Not a pattern of abuse and harassment, but a pattern of him being a clueless jackass around women.
I see some of this that you describe in the documents, but I feel like I can drive a coach and horses through many/most of her arguments. A lot of the stuff just feels a bit petty… or handbags, but nothing really substantive. Rosebud had a much more compelling claim.

What really gets my goat is when Jenn Kamp complains about John Dehlin providing incorrect, manipulated or incomplete evidence, however Jenn Kamp is still not managing to submit evidence, which the court itself ordered she submit in full… months ago. And it was found that she destroyed some of it. It’s stinking hypocrisy on her part. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

The only conclusion I can come to is that John Dehlin is a bit of a douche at times. Jenn Kamp on the other hand…. As for posting those documents, fascinating, but also against what the judge ordered.
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