Marie "dances" while her son goes into rehab

[_karl61]

I personally think the "problem," either way, is always our own.

I'm gonna take a "middle-o-the-road" position here. As I said earlier, I completely agree that the ultimate attitude to have is that we are all responsible for everything in our lives. I believe, from many angles, it is absolutely true.

However, it is a journey for many to get to that place. Religion, and not only Mormonism, often teaches a principle that inhibits this knowledge. Flip Wilson's "the Devil made me do it!" phrase projects an attitude that allows many to become victims...chronically blaming outside influences for their lot in life. Belief in Deity may contribute to this as well, as "He" may be said to have a "plan" for us, and it is our job to follow that plan.

Where I can relate to the common exmo position is that this "paradigm" changes for us. We are raised with a very black and white story of what we are to do, and not do, to prepare us for a "better place" in the hereafter. Much of religion is about being tested and living a way that will get us to that goal. When that "story" changes for us, it takes some time to rebuild a healthy way of living without the predestined path. Sometimes that involves some unhealthy behaviors...and for some of us, we have to experience things to learn the consequences. Others are a little luckier and can learn from others.

Along this journey, a plethora of emotions are common. Confusion leads to anger, sadness, and depression commonly. Substance abuse is an easy way to drown the pain of this stage; and we can only hope they will get past it alive!

If one hasn't experienced this paradigm shift, it is difficult to understand, I'm sure. I think we can all have compassion for those that have more trauma in life than the norm, and just give the love and support you would want if it happened to you.

Often, those who have experienced this "paradigm shift" turn back around and act as though those who haven't are blind dupes or controlled idiots. Mormonism has taught me to find truth wherever I can find it, and I mean that, it's not a nice little idea or sound bite. I see yours as a more moderate position but it is not a middle of the road approach; it fails to adequately recognize that the LDS Church can engender more thoughtful, introspective, honest people who aren't "overcome" by unrealistic expectations.

spare me LOaP: I don't see active LDS being thoughtful, introspective and honest in dealing with Joseph's Polygamy. They bury it and hope it will go away. I don't see the active LDS seeking what really influenced Joseph Smith when he dictated the Book of Mormon. Those who see the truth are cast out - and are seen as problems.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

spare me LOaP: I don't see active LDS being thoughtful, introspective and honest in dealing with Joseph's Polygamy. They bury it and hope it will go away. I don't see the active LDS seeking what really influenced Joseph Smith when he dictated the Book of Mormon. Those who see the truth are cast out - and are seen as problems.

This may be true according to your own experience, I don't doubt you honestly believe that, but it is not true concerning mine.

[_barrelomonkeys]

I have no idea what this thread is about.

[_Bond...James Bond]

I have no idea what this thread is about.

I think it's about how you seduce men on the Internet with your slutty avatars ;O)

[Guest]

Edited

[_Roger Morrison]

Some interesting figures emerging--no pun intended ;-)--here. Trinity lists 40 facilities for Youth Treatment; 80% with LDS religious affiliation. Marie O. suggested 70% youth Farm Party with parent's drugs.

Harmony blames Moms who are too conscious of their appearance, and fear growing old. Probably some go to extremes both ways. Which says pretty much the same thing about them as the tendency for youth to have the need of self-enhancement.

"Somewhere in their youth or childhood, they must have missed somethings good." Paraphrasing Julie Andrews, "Sound of Music". Those somethings, i suggest were/are validation, positive attention, respect, positive encouragement, kind/gentle/noncritical teaching, cuddles, sincere hugs and open communications from day one, every day.

I agree with BarreloMs. Age is no excuse to be frumpy. Frumpy is frumpy from the beginning. Generally speaking it is simply a characteristic of some. So be it. OTOH so is being health and body conscious. It's sort-of what makes us who WE are and different. My wife is beautiful in her 70s. She can't help it. I'm bald, wear bi-focals, 'told' i'm hearing impaired, take my teeth out at night, and am lucky to find them in the morning. Just the way i am. But, i can still do 25 push-ups and 10 chin-ups every morning, cuz i am in control of my actions. Heredity is out'a my hands.

Stupid parents have usually been stupid/insecure/stupid/dependent/stupid/frightened types before they were parents. So it's pretty hard to all of a sudden know how to nurture as a warm, confident, comforting parent when still in the adolecsent state of being no-it-all know nothings, taking advice from old well intended know-nothings. Who the best they can do is advise to pray more and listen to your Church leaders. Cuz they know it's Democrat multi ear-rings...

I do not intend to minimize the social/familial difficulties of our time. With all of their seriousness they MUST BE SEEN as symptoms of much deeper causes than traditions will allow us to HONESTLY address. I didn't mean to be offensive... Warm regards, Roger

[_Tori]

This thread causes me to react several different ways.

1. I raised 8 kids. They weren't the most popular kids on the block, never had much spending money, although they usually had access to a car. They weren't invited to parties or on trips or that sort of thing. That used to bother me. I was stupid to be bothered by such a frivilous shallow thing. We hosted some of the most well attended, funnest parties in the neighborhood, yet my kids were never invited back. Still, none of them ever did drugs, drank alcohol, or spent a night in jail, so I guess missing the parties of those who did wasn't such a bad thing.

2. What the hell was that doctor thinking, to prescribe Percoset for cramps? Someone should jerk that idiot's license!

3. Some women cannot bear to grow old. I look at Marie and see that kind of woman. I am not impressed that she can kick that high at 48 years old. I know what she does in order to be able to do that, and I wonder at her priorities. I wonder if a big part of the problem for these children is that their mothers refuse to admit to themselves that they're getting older. They secretly despised their own mothers, those mostly plump frumpy women, and vowed early in life to never allow that to happen to them, only to find that their children really need women focused solely on them in their lives, even if they're plump and frumpy because of that focus. Cosmetic surgery is at an all time high, as women have their breasts enhanced, their lips puffed up, their bodies sculpted, their faces Botoxed, all with the idea of remaining 24 forever. When women aren't comfortable in their own skin, being the age they are, how can children be mothered? When grandmothers focus on looking like teenagers, we've got a problem. Children, especially teenagers, don't need competition from their mothers.

Look nice, yes, but don't color the gray, don't fight the inevitable plumpness, don't fight the occasional wrinkle, don't seek to be something that is long gone. Be content in the now. I think that is a major problem with our women, both in and out of the church. We are not content in the now. We want the prime of our lives to last far longer than it's supposed to. I think it's a cultural thing, and something that Mormon women have embraced far too often and far too much.

It was a PA that prescribed the Percocet. The amount of pain she was in due to her Endometriosis was pretty intense and I assume he just wanted to help her. My point was that there were many things that could've contributed to the dependency.

And Marie's kicks when she dances....I am impressed and I know what she has to do in order to do that. A lot of stretching and conditioning coupled with some natural flexability. I think it's great she can do that. If your body is flexable, there are less injuries and it helps all around wellness.

Making a confession here, with no apologies. I do Botox, color my hair, and I recently had Plastic Surgery. I do what I can to look good, feel good, feel better about myself. It has nothing to do with wanting to stay young but more to do with enjoying life and feeling good while I do that.

I don't agree with you that these things seem to be something Mormon women have embraced. There's a small segment that do, but what I have noticed more are the Mormon women that let themselves go after they are married and have children. I look around my ward on a Sunday and the majority don't wear makeup, wear denim jumper's (sorry! So not flattering) and the same old ugly hairstyle they've had for years. in my opinion most Mormon women should care a little more about their appearance. It's funny to go out of Utah like to Disneyland or some place and you can spot a Mormon woman a mile away.....and I'm not talking about their wholesomeness, but more about their dowdiness.

[_harmony]

Making a confession here, with no apologies. I do Botox, color my hair, and I recently had Plastic Surgery. I do what I can to look good, feel good, feel better about myself. It has nothing to do with wanting to stay young but more to do with enjoying life and feeling good while I do that.

Do you do it, so no one will be able to tell which is the mom and which is the daughter? Because you can't bear to look in the mirror and see laughlines? Because gray = old in your mind?

I have nothing against makeup, stylish haircuts, or being in shape. What I really despise is women who cannot bear to be in the skin they're in, as old as they are, and who try to recapture a lost youth and compete with younger women for younger men. That's just my own little hangup and I make no apologies for it either.

I don't agree with you that these things seem to be something Mormon women have embraced. There's a small segment that do, but what I have noticed more are the Mormon women that let themselves go after they are married and have children. I look around my ward on a Sunday and the majority don't wear makeup, wear denim jumper's (sorry! So not flattering) and the same old ugly hairstyle they've had for years. in my opinion most Mormon women should care a little more about their appearance. It's funny to go out of Utah like to Disneyland or some place and you can spot a Mormon woman a mile away.....and I'm not talking about their wholesomeness, but more about their dowdiness.

In my ward are a bunch of women who strive to exactly what they were 20 years ago, updated of course with Botox, breast enhancements, and Stairmaster asses. We have a bunch of 50 something women who desperately still want to be 30 somethings. When they were 30 somethings, they desperately wanted to be 20 somethings. No sagging boobs, no wrinkles on their faces, no flabby arms for them.

Whatever. I find that sad. Especially for the girls who feel like they have to compete with their moms for attention.

[_Jersey Girl]

harm

Do you do it, so no one will be able to tell which is the mom and which is the daughter? Because you can't bear to look in the mirror and see laughlines? Because gray = old in your mind?

I know this was meant for Tori, but I'd like to reply for what it's worth, which possibly is nothing at all. I first colored my hair when I was 14 (Nice n' Easy Golden Blonde...got into mega trouble for it too!). I was a student of cosmetology and loved experimenting with hair color, make up and styles. I've gone through periods of coloring and natural for most of my life. I color my hair because I like how it looks. My hair will likely go completely white as with the other women in my family. I think the white is gorgeous.

Just casting my vote.

Natural Instincts #14,
Jersey Girl
:-)

p.s. What's wrong with a Stairmaster ass?

[_harmony]

b

harm

Do you do it, so no one will be able to tell which is the mom and which is the daughter? Because you can't bear to look in the mirror and see laughlines? Because gray = old in your mind?

I know this was meant for Tori, but I'd like to reply for what it's worth, which possibly is nothing at all. I first colored my hair when I was 14 (Nice n' Easy Golden Blonde...got into mega trouble for it too!). I was a student of cosmetology and loved experimenting with hair color, make up and styles. I've gone through periods of coloring and natural for most of my life. I color my hair because I like how it looks. My hair will likely go completely white as with the other women in my family. I think the white is gorgeous.

Just casting my vote.

Natural Instincts #14,
Jersey Girl
:-)

p.s. What's wrong with a Stairmaster ass?

Nothing. I'm obviously not expressing myself as clearly as I'd like. Nevermind.