List of things that make Mormonism a cult

[_solomarineris]

The LDS church is not a cult although some exmembers wish to be it is. First, a person is free to join the church. Second, a person is free to leave the church. Third, the church is a religious organization which allows its members to live in the world. Fourth, there is no brainwashing present.

Cults, generally speaking, do not follow the above points.

The LDS church does have a powerful message and a powerful story. Not to mention the holy spirit which testifies to the truthfulness of its gospel. This in itself does not make it a cult but it could make it difficult to leave.

I must agree with you;
I belong to the oldestr Christian faith established, my church has rituals and some of the elements Scottie
pretty well describes. The only diference is; it is a "Laissez Faire" thing, nobody calls me for not going to church,
I'm seldom bothered for money, duties etc.
If one wants to put the the label "CULT", it should encompass almost the whole Christianity.

[_Scottie]

The LDS church is not a cult although some exmembers wish to be it is. First, a person is free to join the church. Second, a person is free to leave the church. Third, the church is a religious organization which allows its members to live in the world. Fourth, there is no brainwashing present.

Cults, generally speaking, do not follow the above points.

The LDS church does have a powerful message and a powerful story. Not to mention the holy spirit which testifies to the truthfulness of its gospel. This in itself does not make it a cult but it could make it difficult to leave.

You make some good points here. Except for #4, which it could be argued that there is severe indoctrination, the LDS church does lack these properties of other cult-type movements.

However, when others from the outside call it a cult, don't act so shocked. It DOES have more cult-like properties than any other mainstream religion.

[_Scottie]

If one wants to put the the label "CULT", it should encompass almost the whole Christianity.

This argument has been made a couple of times now, and I have to disagree.

Most mainstream religions don't have as many of the cult-type checklist items as the LDS church does.

Sure, all religions have SOME of the items checked. But that doesn't make them a cult.

I'm not even saying the LDS church IS a cult. It's too big, and Why Me's list gets it off the hook in my book. I'm simply trying to say that when others call the LDS religion a cult, don't be so incredulated that someone would think that.

[_guy sajer]

My nine year old denies that there is a professional football team in Michigan. rcrocket

I imagine that there are some Lions fans who would agree with your son.

[_Jason Bourne]

I think it should be more proactive with teaching the history so no one is startled. And that's all.

On the issue of being startled about polygamy, and the obligation to teach the truth, I agree. For that reason, I was startled when I learned that Joseph Fielding Smith's Essentials in Church History taught that Joseph Smith had multiple wives.

I am also shocked that the Sesquicentennial Project's volume dedicated to the Nauvoo Era (Glenn Leonard, Nauvoo), although not exactly a Church publication started out as one and is published by BYU Press, goes into some detail about Joseph Smith's wives. I was really shocked and surprised that the Church of all folks, or at least BYU, would be so "proactive." Really, I was startled.

And then, there was the Church's 19th Century publication in the Deseret News of affidavits of former wives of Joseph Smith, offered to refute Emma's claim that Joseph didn't practice plural marriage. Come on -- the Deseret News? What was the Church thinking in making such disclosures?

And then there was the Church's historian, who in 1979 published a book used as a textbook at BYU and Institute classes. L. Arrington, The Mormon Experience. Talking all about Joseph Smith's polygamy. Dang it; how stupified I was by this disclosure too!!! Never mind the fact that the church authorized the publication of the Journal of Discourses where this is referenced repeatedly. What is the Church thinking? Damn it -- why all this need to astound and startle me?

Oh oh oh -- the Encylopedia of Mormonism, and its entry on Plural Marriage. Now, there is a publication with full Church sanction. How dumbfounded I was to be so startled about the teaching of Joseph Smith's wives. Gag; I'm going to vomit with all my startling revelations.

This is partial and part for Mr Crockett. It is all there and it is your fault if at 15 years old before you went on a mission you had not searched out BYU studies, dialogue and all the other resources and discovered all this before you served a mission, went to college, married in the temple and committed your all.

Same for investigators. They should do all their own due diligence.

Why should we expect the missionaries to teach anything but the basic faith promoting story? Why should we expect the Church manuals, the Church seminary lessons and so on to disclose anything that could cause doubts?

Any one disillusioned ove r what you found when you actually did take the time on your own it is your own damn fault.

But remember, the Church ask "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow men." A mutual fund must disclose more to me when I put $2500 in in IRA than the LDS Church volunteers and teaches a new member or a youth growing up LDS before asking a total life commitment on their part.

Maybe I am just naïve but this seems just wrong. A great point is the Joseph Smith film and the Memorial building. As was noted on this thread, that film is designed to show on the best and most positive things about Joseph Smith. It is designed to iinvoke an emotional response and tears. When I saw it they passed out tissues before hand and said we would need them. And then when you could not help but love the one dimensional Joseph Smith that was portrayed you re told that is the spirit telling you he was indeed God's prophet. This is the sole goal of such productions, stories, books and seminary manuals. Create from bits of the history a faith promoting story. Is that really honest though?

[_harmony]

A great point is the Joseph Smith film and the Memorial building. As was noted on this thread, that film is designed to show on the best and most positive things about Joseph Smith. It is designed to iinvoke an emotional response and tears. When I saw it they passed out tissues before hand and said we would need them. And then when you could not help but love the one dimensional Joseph Smith that was portrayed you re told that is the spirit telling you he was indeed God's prophet. This is the sole goal of such productions, stories, books and seminary manuals. Create from bits of the history a faith promoting story. Is that really honest though?

That movie made me gag, even when I was a TBM.

[_Some Schmo]

First, a person is free to join the church. Second, a person is free to leave the church. Third, the church is a religious organization which allows its members to live in the world. Fourth, there is no brainwashing present.

Except for #4, these things are technically true of all cults. You're free to join and leave all other cults too. Other cults allow people to live in the world as well (What are they going to do? Ship them to Jupiter?)

As for the brainwashing comment, it's good to see that it's worked so well on you, you don't even know it exists.

[_Scottie]

First, a person is free to join the church. Second, a person is free to leave the church. Third, the church is a religious organization which allows its members to live in the world. Fourth, there is no brainwashing present.

Except for #4, these things are technically true of all cults. You're free to join and leave all other cults too. Other cults allow people to live in the world as well (What are they going to do? Ship them to Jupiter?)

As for the brainwashing comment, it's good to see that it's worked so well on you, you don't even know it exists.

I think Why Me is referring to something similar to the FLDS compounds. They are not allowed to be in the world. No internet access is available.

[_Jason Bourne]

A great point is the Joseph Smith film and the Memorial building. As was noted on this thread, that film is designed to show on the best and most positive things about Joseph Smith. It is designed to iinvoke an emotional response and tears. When I saw it they passed out tissues before hand and said we would need them. And then when you could not help but love the one dimensional Joseph Smith that was portrayed you re told that is the spirit telling you he was indeed God's prophet. This is the sole goal of such productions, stories, books and seminary manuals. Create from bits of the history a faith promoting story. Is that really honest though?

That movie made me gag, even when I was a TBM.

I do not think the movie existed when you were a TBM. It came out about 2 years ago.

[Guest]

First, a person is free to join the church. Second, a person is free to leave the church. Third, the church is a religious organization which allows its members to live in the world. Fourth, there is no brainwashing present.

Except for #4, these things are technically true of all cults. You're free to join and leave all other cults too. Other cults allow people to live in the world as well (What are they going to do? Ship them to Jupiter?)

As for the brainwashing comment, it's good to see that it's worked so well on you, you don't even know it exists.

Not exactly. The Jim Jones cult did not allow its members to leave once the decision for a mass suicide was put into effect. Many were killed by gunfire and I remember one black woman pleading with Jim not to enact the death sentence that he imposed on the members. It is all on tape.

Of course, in the LDS church, there is sunday school where doctrine is taught and priesthood and relief society where more doctrine is taught. But since that much depends on the teacher in terms of how interesting the class is as is the same for sacrament talks (it can be quite boring) I don't see much brainwashing present. Nor cult like qualities.