The distance between Christianity and the 4 Gospels

[Philo Sofee]

I have a reading suggestion for you.

https://ericmetaxas.com/books/is-atheism-dead/

Eric Metaxas. You mean this guy:

Metaxas, the former VeggieTales writer, made headlines over the summer after he punched a protester and then ran away after attending Trump’s speech at the Republican National Convention.

https://religionnews.com/2020/11/30/eri ... n-triumph/

If it's the same gent, there is absolutely no doubt now why MG 2.0 is so inept at his defense of Mormonism. Perhaps he ought to join Eric and gain some credibility, he certainly has none as Mormon defender. He will at least be a credit to Eric who appears to me to be literally a lying, Gossiping, entirely dishonest Christian. MG 2.0's "morality" can perhaps help out his brother Eric here.

[honorentheos]

Indeed.

What’s in your wallet?

Regards,
MG

10% more of my income, for starters.

[huckelberry]

Eric metaxasss and the associated zombie hoard is the most brutally compelling argument against the existence of god that I have encountered. I have read more than a couple of atheist books . They are not all bad. but to demonstrate a love of vain delusion over reality as Eric demonstrates in his fanatical and delusional love of a dangerous and antichristian leader is demonstration better than fussing about lack of proof and other such matters.

[MG 2.0]

I have a reading suggestion for you.

https://ericmetaxas.com/books/is-atheism-dead/

Eric Metaxas. You mean this guy:

Metaxas, the former VeggieTales writer, made headlines over the summer after he punched a protester and then ran away after attending Trump’s speech at the Republican National Convention.

https://religionnews.com/2020/11/30/eri ... n-triumph/

He is definitely a Christian conservative who at one time had flirted with leftest ideology and saw it for what it was. He’s a bit more complex than you’re making him out to be. The fact that he is a Christian conservative, however, will most likely discourage you from reading the book I’ve linked to. He definitely doesn’t run around with your crowd.

I don’t expect you’ll read Is Atheism Dead.

He’s not the simple minded hick you would like to make him out to be.

At one point, he was best known for founding Socrates in the City, a series of conversations with writers and thinkers like New Testament Wright, Francis Collins, Lauren Winner and Sir John Polkinghorne, where he developed a reputation for thoughtful commentary on faith and public life.

Regards,
MG

[toon]

What’s in your wallet?

Regards,
MG

10% more of my income, for starters.

Actually, 11.11% more

[Morley]

He is definitely a Christian conservative who at one time had flirted with leftest ideology and saw it for what it was. He’s a bit more complex than you’re making him out to be. The fact that he is a Christian conservative, however, will most likely discourage you from reading the book I’ve linked to.

I know and love a few Christian conservatives. They're not like this guy. Sampling his wiki entry:

After the 2020 presidential election, Metaxas endorsed Donald Trump's claim that the election was tainted by voter fraud, predicting on Twitter: "Trump will be inaugurated. For the high crimes of trying to throw a U.S. presidential election, many will go to jail." Metaxas also told Trump on Metaxas's radio show that "Jesus is with us in this fight" to overturn the 2020 election. "I'd be happy to die in this fight," Metaxas added.[40][41]

In 2021, amid the COVID-19 pandemic, Metaxas told his followers, "Don't get the vaccine."[42]

He definitely doesn’t run around with your crowd. I don’t expect you’ll read Is Atheism Dead.

Not if my luck holds out.

He’s not the simple minded hick you would like to make him out to be.

Nah, I have words other than 'simple minded hick' for the type of guy who will punch an unarmed man in the back of the head and run.

[Marcus]

He is definitely a Christian conservative who at one time had flirted with leftest ideology and saw it for what it was. He’s a bit more complex than you’re making him out to be. The fact that he is a Christian conservative, however, will most likely discourage you from reading the book I’ve linked to.

I know and love a few Christian conservatives. They're not like this guy. Sampling his wiki entry:

After the 2020 presidential election, Metaxas endorsed Donald Trump's claim that the election was tainted by voter fraud, predicting on Twitter: "Trump will be inaugurated. For the high crimes of trying to throw a U.S. presidential election, many will go to jail." Metaxas also told Trump on Metaxas's radio show that "Jesus is with us in this fight" to overturn the 2020 election. "I'd be happy to die in this fight," Metaxas added.[40][41]

In 2021, amid the COVID-19 pandemic, Metaxas told his followers, "Don't get the vaccine."[42]

He definitely doesn’t run around with your crowd. I don’t expect you’ll read Is Atheism Dead.

Not if my luck holds out.

He’s not the simple minded hick you would like to make him out to be.

Nah, I have words other than 'simple minded hick' for the type of guy who will punch an unarmed man in the back of the head and run.

Me too. Even the next sentences immediately after the quote mg posted without attribution point out more of these issues:

At one point, he was best known for founding Socrates in the City, a series of conversations with writers and thinkers like New Testament Wright, Francis Collins, Lauren Winner and Sir John Polkinghorne, where he developed a reputation for thoughtful commentary on faith and public life.

Then he discovered Donald Trump.

Since then, the once-genial Christian author who penned “Lyle the Kindly Viking” has become a full-throated supporter of the president and critic of the liberal forces he believes pose a threat to American culture.

His latest book, “Donald Builds the Wall,” features a blond-headed caveman dressed in an American flag saving his people from the forces of evil by building a wall to keep out swamp creatures and a “caravan of troublemakers.”

https://religionnews.com/2019/09/27/eri ... f-america/

the small print is the part mg cherry picked, the rest is context he left out.

Maybe this is why mg thinks this:

...Lots of stuff around here is taken out of context or cherry picked....

[honorentheos]

Figures. MG has outed himself as a rightwing crusader who had exposed his motives in the past as a true believer in American neoconservativism. He's stopped attempting to discuss subjects, apparently having decided those debating him here are working his positions over due to rhetoric or cunning rather than due to the weakness of his position. So now we get the treat of his showing up periodically to offer uncompensated promotions for whatever he is currently ingesting and feels would do the work of winning over open-minded people from the side of evil liberal atheism.

The book he's shilling for sounds like the latest book of a type that's been a mainstay of Christian bookstore fare. That being the likes of The Case for Christ, claiming to be serious works from former skeptics or atheists overwhelmed by the evidence for the Christian God's existence when they finally took the time to move past stubborn or sinful rejection and listen. In reality they are a catalogue of strawmen portrayals of atheist positions matched up with shallowly supported pro-Christian evidence. There are inevitably sections that use archaeology to draw a line between the existence of a place mentioned in the Bible and the miraculous events associated with it as if all that needs proved is the existence of Nineveh for Jonah to have been a real person who was swallowed by a large fish and spoke with God. They usually have sections arguing that atheists believe in things that science doesn't have full answers for so it's really a type of anti-faith relying on "science of the gaps". "How did life begin? You can't say for sure? Then you are choosing to reject the alternative view of the Bible on faith! No, it doesn't matter that science has plenty to say about the majority of content in Genesis because you have a gap you fill with faith!"

They are trash written precisely for folks like MG who need assured their faith is built on a solid foundation and non-belief is only being held up by clever people who are sowing evil in the world.because the truth is just so gosh dang clear if one is willing to look for it.

I suppose gone are the days when MG would actually present and defend a position. Oh well.

[Paloma]

I came across this statement, and thought it rather insightful:

"People don't leave Christianity because they stop believing in the teachings of Jesus. People leave the Christian Church because they believe in the teachings of Jesus so much, they can't stomach being part of an institution that claims to be about that and clearly isn't." -Nadia Bolz-Weber

I find this true and sad. It expresses much the same sentiment as this well-known Mahatma Gandhi quote: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

The history of Christianity, in my view, shows a devastating transition from Christian faith in God becoming less a simple grass roots movement to be followed (even, in a sense, a "choose your own adventure" while following Jesus who models and teaches the parameters of inclusiveness, love, grace and freedom) than an institution which is to be defended at all cost. It became less an organism and more an organization. It became less a Presence to be loved and followed than a Power structure to be defended by all means ... hence the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, religious wars, etc.

I think that any Christian church that claims to be the 'only' true church ... that claims to hold and safeguard the "right way" to follow Jesus (did you see a recent Midnight Mormons podcast where Brad, Kwaku and Cardon exulted in 'owning' Jesus!) ... is a modern adaptation of defending its own version of the Christian faith at all costs.

I don't hold Mormonism responsible for this kind of exclusivism and its defense more than any other church. The history of Christianity is replete with examples.

I find it ironic that the Mormon apologists Daniel Peterson and Louis Midgley fall squarely into this "defend by any means and at all costs the one and only way to apprehend and enjoy the full benefits of Christian faith".

It's ironic because:

Midgely has repeatedly said that he doesn't see Christianity as an 'ism' or an 'ity' but rather as the ongoing story of God and his people. But Midgley is certainly in the business of defending an organization rather than a loving God who is more than able to represent and defend himself without viewing the 'other' as the enemy.

Both Peterson and Midgley claim to hold 'almost' universalist positions where everyone receives grace and mercy in the end and become part of God's family. They just don't seem to exhibit this inclusive, gracious and loving stance here on earth. They may claim this generosity of spirit in word (and perhaps even in their own reflections on themselves), but the proof is in the pudding.

[MG 2.0]

I suppose gone are the days when MG would actually present and defend a position. Oh well.

It’s a bit difficult to prove God’s existence to a non believer. One can only present reasons to believe. Matataxas’s book presents a number of fine tuning arguments that I think are interesting. Proof of God? No. Reasons to take God’s existence as a reasonable alternative to disbelief? Yes.

I had listened to a Dennis Prager podcast weeks ago where Metaxas was a guest. His political views were not discussed. Just the new book and some of the arguments for God, etc. I hadn’t heard of him before. Yes, I’m enjoying the book and believe it brings to the forefront some of the current ‘proofs’ for God.

I’ve read Ehrman and the like also. Simply put, I think the arguments for God and a Savior outweigh arguments against.

By the way, I’m an Independent. I have problems with Trump. I didn’t vote for him in 2016. I don’t think I could vote for him if he runs again. I’m not far right by any stretch. I am discouraged in the direction the country has taken since Biden took office though.

Regards,
MG