Joseph's Swamp

[_why me]

I suspect this is why we save our admonishments for sexual morality rather than business ethics. There is money to be made on swamp land.

And yet, the letter shows a genuine concern for the people. Such a letter would not have been written by a cold blooded profiteer with dollar signs in his eyes. And I am sure that others knew of the problem too. Where would you have suggested him to go? Back to missouri? More inland where the saints awaited perhaps more persecution? After being forced from place to place with deaths and sickness following them along the way and murder by protestant blood thirsty mobs, what should he have done?

[_beastie]

And yet, the letter shows a genuine concern for the people. Such a letter would not have been written by a cold blooded profiteer with dollar signs in his eyes. And I am sure that others knew of the problem too. Where would you have suggested him to go? Back to missouri? More inland where the saints awaited perhaps more persecution? After being forced from place to place with deaths and sickness following them along the way and murder by protestant blood thirsty mobs, what should he have done?

Do you have no shame?

As if I didn't already realize it, this makes clear you will defend Mormonism or its leaders no matter how ridiculous it makes you appear.

Joseph Smith, in the name of the Lord, induced and enticed immigrants to purchase land that he knew was a sickly death-hole. People were sick and dying around him constantly.

Whatever "genuine concern" that was shown in the letter was superficial and laughable. Kind of like a serial killer shedding a tear for the suffering of his victim.

[_MCB]

OK. I finally gained access to the old posts of this thread, and found the "Death at Mormon Nauvoo" article. http://www.archive.org/stream/westernil ... t_djvu.txt
The autobiographical statements do indicate that the rate of illness and death tapered off in 1841, after they dug the drainage ditches.

There is also plenty of indication that the men were encouraged to believe that their resistance to missionary duty caused their illnesses. Some were still sick when they left, but soon after their health improved, despite the stresses of travel.

[_hobo1512]

Ah, but you blamed it all on the "anti-mormons". Now we see there were mo's in there too.

But according to you, it is all the anti's fault.

Getting dizzy from going around in circles yet?

I have always compared the crisis to that of 2008 when the recent banking crisis happened. There is a relationship within the system. However, back in 1837, the Mormon bank was small and vulnerable. Bad timing. I also have claimed that Joseph Smith was not a very good businessman. But this bank was not a con. It was a way for the saints to gather needed funds. But it didn't work. And the antimormons wanting their funds back did not help.

You blamed it on the anti's, and the banking crisis.

At what point to Mormons take responsibility for their actions?

Including you by the way.

[_Yahoo Bot]

Joseph Smith, in the name of the Lord, induced and enticed immigrants to purchase land that he knew was a sickly death-hole. People were sick and dying around him constantly.

Umm. Not really.

Nobody knew during this time what caused malaria, but settlements all along the Mississippi were prone to malaria. They did know that increased population density (which led to increased drainage) reduced malaria, which was indeed the case in Nauvoo.

On the one hand, it is evident Joseph Smith saw the alluvial as very productive farmland and place for the poor to emigrate. On the other hand when he went to negotiate the terms of the note with Galland, he was going to point out and emphasize its flaws.

[_why me]

Umm. Not really.

Nobody knew during this time what caused malaria, but settlements all along the Mississippi were prone to malaria. They did know that increased population density (which led to increased drainage) reduced malaria, which was indeed the case in Nauvoo.

On the one hand, it is evident Joseph Smith saw the alluvial as very productive farmland and place for the poor to emigrate. On the other hand when he went to negotiate the terms of the note with Galland, he was going to point out and emphasize its flaws.

And that ends this thread.

It seems that the women on this forum tend to hate Joseph Smith and this female hatred tends to cloud their judgment.

[_Morley]

It seems that the women on this forum tend to hate Joseph Smith and this female hatred tends to cloud their judgment. : evil :

why_me

[_beastie]

The health conditions caused one author to refer to Nauvoo as a “beautiful pesthole.”

The unhealthy living conditions compounded by the moist environment in Commerce [Nauvoo] promoted the spread of disease. The swampy conditions existed not only because of the river, but also from the many springs and streams rising in the bluffs. The Saints eventually solved this problem by digging a drainage ditch along the base of the bluffs dividing the water at its source.

However, although the ditch improved the environment for the Saints by eliminating some of the swampy land, it did not completely remove the threat of disease. Mosquitoes were the unsuspected carriers of the disease, which infected the entire Mississippi River basin. Although malaria was prevalent in Missouri, few accounts of it are recorded in the Mormon journals until the Nauvoo period. From the early days of settling Nauvoo to the last days of its abandonment, malaria was the most prevalent disease in the region and played an important role in the Saints' sad tale.

The wisdom of the time dictated that malaria was caused by bad swamp air generated by vegetable matter. This disease was known in them as the “Ague” or the “Fever.” Malaria was not the only disease that afflicted the Saints in Nauvoo. They had to contend with dysentery, typhoid, brain fever (meningitis), scarlet fever, and diphtheria, which were all communicable. Children's diseases included bloody flux (dysentery), summer sickness and cholera infantum (infant diarrhea), as well as the normal childhood diseases such as measles, mumps, and whooping cough.

Another factor that kept malaria and other diseases active was the steady influx of immigrants from
the East and from England. When the population of an area becomes stable, the incidence of malaria
and other diseases tends to decrease and, in some cases, disappear. However, when the population increases, the spread of disease also increases. Because the newcomers were not acclimated to the area and its diseases, malaria continued to be a problem in Nauvoo

From the above linked article.

But I'm sure whyme and the bot he quotes won't let facts get in the way of a good fairy tale.

[_Yahoo Bot]

malaria continued to be a problem in Nauvoo

I never said malaria disappeared. It didn't. When the Saints were expelled from Nauvoo in 1846 and were all sick on the opposite bank, they were sick from malaria, most likely.

Malaria was a common problem along the Mississippi, but property was also most valuable along the Mississippi where steamers could make landings, and the Nauvoo bottoms was just such a place.

The question is whether Joseph Smith knew that what he was buying was malaria-ridden, that he was putting the Saints in harms' way for a personal buck, and that he lied to them about conditions there.

To ascribe these motivations to Joseph Smith would really require him to know the causes of malaria. He didn't. He would have had no way of knowing.

Look for example at the Jamestown experience. With all their knowledge and sophistication, they couldn't figure out that getting out of the lowlands would save them?

[_Equality]

The question is whether Joseph Smith knew that what he was buying was malaria-ridden, that he was putting the Saints in harms' way for a personal buck, and that he lied to them about conditions there.

To ascribe these motivations to Joseph Smith would really require him to know the causes of malaria. He didn't. He would have had no way of knowing.

No, it wouldn't. He would only need to know that the land was unsafe for habitation. He wouldn't need to know the cause of malaria. If he knew the land was a death pit, and subsequently sold it to gullible immigrants by promising "in the name of the Lord" that it was the healthiest land in town, then we are perfectly justified in ascribing to him less than "pious" motivations. And why wouldn't he know? According to him, he talked to God and could know the truth of all things by the power of the Holy Ghost. Mormons claim that the Lord gave Joseph knowledge that was decades ahead of science with respect to the Law of Health known as the Word of Wisdom. Surely, if God could tell ole Joe that tea was unhealthy, God could have told him to boil water to make it safe to drink. Oh, wait, according to Mormons, God told him the exact opposite.