Spiritual trauma: did you have any?

[_Coggins7]

Exactly! I could have written that post, Harmony. In all four of these cases, the men were respected church leaders...they just had a "little problem."

Sexual or physical abuse of one's eternal companion is not a "little problem". Anyone who had actually ever been a Bishop would have known that. But I'll bite. You put the phrase "little problem" in quotes. Alright, who are you quoting?

I'm not interested in "proving" to anyone what happened.

Good, because you can't. That's the nice thing about How-I-left-the-church-stories.

In fact, my OP was about what triggered the questioning -- it was just what happened in my life that created some questions. It seems some here want this to be a MAD board...you know, CFR anything that challenges Mormonism.

Whatever.

If you have reading comprehension problems of such a magnitude that the constant debate of Church critics at MAD has escaped you, you're creditability here is going to take a kick to the groin that you won't forget. Would that this could be the MAD board, but for that to happen, probably 80% of the posters here would have to be banned, not because of criticism of the Church, which is at MAD in profusion, but because of the vicious, irrelevant ad hominam attacks against the Church, its leaders, its defenders, and its culture and the profanity, vulgarity, hatred, venom, bigotry, and spleen that fills illimitable voids of bandwidth on a daily basis.

Without that, this board would be only a shadow of its present self. Making this place civil or-gulp-intellectually substantive, is much more than could be hoped for at this juncture.

But then, that's not a principled observation, just my "Mormon mind" at work.

[_harmony]

Bishop's cannot "fix" other people. No one can "fix" others. Grow up.

You know that, and I know that, but women who live with men, church going, temple recommend holding, leadership position holding men, who abuse them DON'T know that. They want the bishop to fix it somehow, not break it to pieces by excommunicating their husbands and their children's fathers.

I have an extensive intellectual background in the study of psychology, yes. Its one of my life long interests. I'm also highly critical of its excesses and weaknesses, which are many. I have no degree in it (or one of its many forms) and do not claim to. Nor do I need one to pontificate upon the subject. Keep up the pose Harmony, your degree is probably just as real and just as legitimate as your Temple recommend.

Sit through 4 years of work, Loran. Put in your time. Study it, sweat it, bear its burden. Never be allowed to put it down. Let it consume your life, instead of it just being a hobby. Until you've done that, you're just a poser and you're just wasting everyone's time with your baseless pontification.

[_Coggins7]

What's wrong with an aging hippie? ;-)

Actually, I prefer most of them at room temperature, but let's not go there (Grin!)

[_harmony]

If you have reading comprehension problems of such a magnitude that the constant debate of Church critics at MAD has escaped you, you're creditability here is going to take a kick to the groin that you won't forget. Would that this could be the MAD board, but for that to happen, probably 80% of the posters here would have to be banned, not because of criticism of the Church, which is at MAD in profusion, but because of the vicious, irrelevant ad hominam attacks against the Church, its leaders, its defenders, and its culture and the profanity, vulgarity, hatred, venom, bigotry, and spleen that fills illimitable voids of bandwidth on a daily basis.

Balderdash. I was banned because Juliann hates me because I made her look like the fool she is. People hate it when they get caught in a lie.

[_Jersey Girl]

Bishop's cannot "fix" other people. No one can "fix" others. Grow up.

You know that, and I know that, but women who live with men, church going, temple recommend holding, leadership position holding men, who abuse them DON'T know that. They want the bishop to fix it somehow, not break it to pieces by excommunicating their husbands and their children's fathers.

I have an extensive intellectual background in the study of psychology, yes. Its one of my life long interests. I'm also highly critical of its excesses and weaknesses, which are many. I have no degree in it (or one of its many forms) and do not claim to. Nor do I need one to pontificate upon the subject. Keep up the pose Harmony, your degree is probably just as real and just as legitimate as your Temple recommend.

Sit through 4 years of work, Loran. Put in your time. Study it, sweat it, bear its burden. Never be allowed to put it down. Let it consume your life, instead of it just being a hobby. Until you've done that, you're just a poser and you're just wasting everyone's time with your baseless pontification.

harm,

I'm trying to have an ephiphany here regarding charity's comments on Rogerian theory. Based on your education/background, would you say that no one theory/approach is best but rather a combination of theories/approaches used so long as they aren't in philosophical conflict?

My apologies for interrupting this thread with a thought pattern.

Jersey Girl

[_Coggins7]

Coggins7 wrote:
Bishop's cannot "fix" other people. No one can "fix" others. Grow up.

You know that, and I know that, but women who live with men, church going, temple recommend holding, leadership position holding men, who abuse them DON'T know that. They want the bishop to fix it somehow, not break it to pieces by excommunicating their husbands and their children's fathers.

You're agenda is showing through here already Harmony. Those family and marriage issues you've never worked through in a healthy, mature way and have internalized and turned against yourself in a self destructive cycle of bitter hatred toward the Church that is really a displaced self hatred and impotent rage against certain key events or losses you have experienced in your life that have created horrendous internal conflicts and defense mechanisms that you have then externalized and reframed as a failure of external entities; in particular the Church and its teachings. You are the victim, the Church is the victimizer. Simple, black and white, self exculpatory (and popular) reference frame within which to explain away and absorb the vicissitudes of mortality. But not healthy or positive.



Quote:
I have an extensive intellectual background in the study of psychology, yes. Its one of my life long interests. I'm also highly critical of its excesses and weaknesses, which are many. I have no degree in it (or one of its many forms) and do not claim to. Nor do I need one to pontificate upon the subject. Keep up the pose Harmony, your degree is probably just as real and just as legitimate as your Temple recommend.

Sit through 4 years of work, Loran. Put in your time. Study it, sweat it, bear its burden. Never be allowed to put it down. Let it consume your life, instead of it just being a hobby. Until you've done that, you're just a poser and you're just wasting everyone's time with your baseless pontification.

Its not a hobby, oh princess of pap. In any case, I'm in the process of putting in work, over the next five or so years, to achieve a Master's degree in Political Science with a minor in philosophy, so I don't have time for Psych. If you're going to continue to blow smoke out of your ass in this manner, please consume some pine needles or cedar bark in some quantity so that at least it will give the house that Christmassy feeling.

[_Coggins7]

Harmony and I actually love one another to death. We're inseparable. We do have our little spats now and then though, don't we?

[_Coggins7]

Balderdash. I was banned because Juliann hates me because I made her look like the fool she is. People hate it when they get caught in a lie.

Oh, of course...

[_Coggins7]

My apologies for interrupting this thread with a thought pattern.

Yes, interpolating an actual thought pattern into any given thread here could turn the whole apple cart upside down. You have no idea what forces you could unleash.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason, you cited the following from the current Church Handbook of Instructions:

-Stake presidents and bishops should make every effort to counsel those who have been involved in abuse. Members may also need professional counseling.

This sounds like it is in direct conflict with what Charity is suggesting. "Every effort to counsel" are words that seem to substantiate that the women were following a church-sanctioned course of action by appealing to ecclesiastical authority for counsel.

I do not think Charity know much about what she is talking about on this topic.

- The Church has established a help line to provide guidance to bishops and stake presidents in cases of abuse....He will be able to consult with socail services, legal specialists and other specialists who can help answer questions and formulate steps that should be taken.

It also sounds like the leaders the women approached prior to BishopRic failed to do this.

Apparently. I do not know how long ago that was. These are current guidelines. I shared them to demonstrate the Church is concerned about this issue and taking steps to improve how it deals with it.