Jerkhood of the Year Nominations

[_asbestosman]

Then Romney was wrong (which is what I think since D&C 64 predates D&C 119 where tithing was given).

How so? Romney speaks of a blessing for those that pay tithing, not of a condemnation for those that don't.

How can you forfeit a blessing by not paying tithing if you end up with that blessing anyhow? That doesn't make sense. Romney used the word forfeit. Either he was right or he was wrong. I say he was wrong in his interpretation of D&C 64.

Either that, or you could burn during the second coming but still obtain a terrestrial glory

I have shown this not to be the case.

No you haven't. You have shown that only those who inherit the terrestrial / celestial glory will be alive during the Millennium and that some who are not valiant in their testimony will inherit terrestrial glory. You have not shown that LDS folks who fail to pay tithing will be among those who survive to the millennium (assuming that they can do so and inherit terrestrial glory). There is more than one way to be less valiant in your testimony of Jesus. How about failure to do Home Teaching every month or visit the temple--things many otherwise good LDS fail?

You haven't even shown that failure to pay tithing will allow you to inherit terrestrial glory instead of telestial. You simply asserted both things without a reference.

[_Gordon]

How can you forfeit a blessing by not paying tithing if you end up with that blessing anyhow?

By some other way.

Let's try a better analogy, shall we?

I promise that if you climb up the ladder, you will reach the roof. However, you can still get to the roof if you go out the attic window. The difference, though, is that if you climb up the ladder, you won't have fiberglass all over you.

Romney used the word forfeit.

You simply forfeit a guarantee.

You have not shown that LDS folks who fail to pay tithing will be among those who survive to the millennium (assuming that they can do so and inherit terrestrial glory).

Wouldn't those that didn't pay their tithing be less valiant?

Think about what your saying for a moment. You're claiming that those who don't pay their tithing will burn...even though it doesn't say that anywhere. Now, I have shown you that those who don't follow all the commandments/covenants of G-d won't burn. That is far more than you have shown me.

There is more than one way to be less valiant in your testimony of Jesus. How about failure to do Home Teaching every month or visit the temple--things many otherwise good LDS fail?

Yours is pure speculation as to what "less valiant" entails. Not paying tithing does fall under that category, though.

[_Kishkumen]

I base it on facts. Charity has nothing to do with it.

Charity has everything to do with this situation.

My argument isn't what the Church did, but what didn't happen to the residents of the motel.

Then we are simply arguing quite different things, and there is probably no use in continuing to argue it, since it is unlikely to be resolved.

If they had given a Bible to each resident, would that make you feel better?

I would have been happy if this whole affair had never taken place. It is bad enough that it happened. That we are treated to your callous idea of humor really doesn't help our perspective on you or the LDS Church.

[_Runtu]

I would have been happy if this whole affair had never taken place. It is bad enough that it happened. That we are treated to your callous idea of humor really doesn't help our perspective on you or the LDS Church.

I'm reminded of the scene in The Bourne Identity where the dying assassin says, "Look at this. Look at what they make you give."

It's not just that an organization would do something callous and uncaring but that someone would feel obligated to justify it. They make you give your soul, don't they?

[_sock puppet]

I would have been happy if this whole affair had never taken place. It is bad enough that it happened. That we are treated to your callous idea of humor really doesn't help our perspective on you or the LDS Church.

I'm reminded of the scene in The Bourne Identity where the dying assassin says, "Look at this. Look at what they make you give."

It's not just that an organization would do something callous and uncaring but that someone would feel obligated to justify it. They make you give your soul, don't they?

And tithe moneys were used to buy the motel property in order to kick Brandi and Kailee and others out of their homes, in order that those tithe payers coming to and then leaving from the Ogden Temple don't have to see the less than becoming conditions some have to live in. The blight, it would be called. Temple goers cannot be expected to be charitable, so all their viewing this blight could do is put them in a pissy mood. Odd, isn't it, that COJCOLDS wouldn't think that hotel would cause those coming to the Ogden Temple to be placed into a more contemplative, 'spiritual' mood--one that makes the temple goer grateful for his or her station in this life, a mood that would encourage him or her to lend a charitable, helping hand to those living in less than desirable circumstance. In the temple, there is the contrast of cold and barren world to the hereafter glories, topped off with the Celestial Room. How insignificant a comparison than the one that the temple goer who is exposed to seeing that motel as he or she drives up to the Ogden Temple would then have with the white, clean and comfortable interiors of the temple.

The Jesus of the New Testament would be ministering to the people in that motel, not in the fancy temple building. The Mormon Jesus kicks those people out of the motel in the cold of winter, days before Christmas. COJCOLDS wanting to protect its temple going tithepayers from having to be reminded of the gritty realities of life.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello,

Well, this has been an educational thread for me. I can certainly see why Jesus would have been assassinated by his own people after reading through Mr. Gordon's comments.

I absolutely believe Jesus would've minstered to the motel residents. I also believe he would've demanded the temple be opened up to the Salt of the Earth so they could lay their heads in warm rooms, and be fed by a beautiful cafeteria.

What a shame a church who proclaims to be His Kingdom on Earth acts with such disdain for the humblest among us. It makes me very, very sad. :/

V/R
Dr. Cam

[Guest]

Alma

33:2 And Alma said unto them, Behold, ye have said that ye could not worship your God, because ye are cast out of your synagogues. But behold, I say unto you, If ye suppose that ye cannot worship God, ye do greatly err, and ye had ought to search the Scriptures; for if ye suppose that they have taught you this, ye do not understand them.

34:40 And now my beloved brethren, I would exhort you to have patience, and that ye bear with all manner of afflictions; that ye do not revile against those who cast you out because of your exceeding poverty, lest ye become sinners like unto them;
34:41 but that ye have patience, and bear with those afflictions, with a firm hope that ye shall one day rest from all your afflictions.

34:28 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, Do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done all these things, if ye turn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted, and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need; I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites which do deny the faith;
34:29 therefore, if ye do not remember to be charitable, ye are as dross, which the refiners do cast out, (it being of no worth,) and is trodden under foot of men.

A plate of hypocrisy filled up to overflowing. Served with water and a side of sawdust.

[_Runtu]

What a shame a church who proclaims to be His Kingdom on Earth acts with such disdain for the humblest among us. It makes me very, very sad. :/

One of my mission companions told me of how his mother, a widowed convert with two small boys, decided to move to Utah where she thought it would be good to raise them around other church members. She discovered that young, single mothers weren't exactly welcomed into the ward. She had been sealed to her husband, so she wasn't exactly dating material, but one man in the ward took her out and ended up date-raping her. When she went to the bishop about it, he convened a disciplinary council, and she was excommunicated. The rapist, on the other hand, was put on probation. When she was diagnosed with terminal cancer, the ward ignored her (after all, she was an excommunicated harlot).

My companion spent the next two years (he was 16 when she died) writing to Salt Lake to have her membership reinstated. They finally did so just before he went on his mission.

Once, we attended a BYU fireside at which a GA said that the church was a hospital for the spiritually sick, to make them whole. My companion said, "It would be a great hospital, except they don't help the truly sick because they don't want to get blood on the carpet."

[_MrStakhanovite]

That's.....a terrible story Runtu.

[_Runtu]

That's.....a terrible story Runtu.

Maybe this will cheer you up:

Karl Pilkington on Charity