Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehlin?

[_Shulem]

Dressed like a woman, ready to pose in Facsmile No. 3.

(Hay, Daniel, what's the name of the Egyptian king in the writing?)





Paul O

[_stemelbow]

Dan Peterson comments on this thread

On the message board where my Malevolent Stalker holds forth, he and several of his acolytes have been hyperventilating for seven outraged pages now -- and the thread may actually be picking up steam -- about an alleged "smear" or "hit piece" that not a single one of them has even laid eyes on. And the Stalker himself, who has been anonymously engaged in a ceaseless, malignant campaign of character assassination and defamation against me for the past six years, claims that I'm a "coward" for not responding to this idiocy.

These "weasels," the Stalker's most faithful disciple predicts (referring to me and some of my associates), "will continue to do their dirty work. . . . They will continue on their smear parade in whatever sneaky, underhanded ways they can." We're villains, he explains, because we hold those who disagree with us "up to public criticism, lampooning, and ridicule."

I'm struggling to see a denial from daniel....

So we have nothing to go off of, but Daniel is guilty all because Scratch suggested he might be? This is why I love this place. I get plenty of chuckles out of the need to go after certain Mormons all why feigning some attempt to come off as objective, thoughtful, and deep. It is utterly adorable. No one seems to get the rich irony in all of this. Otherwise intelligent people acting like little boobs.

Pages ago I offered a CFR for any of this. Nothing. Is this all just about whining about others because you have no part in the play? Can't be something as trivial as that, can it? Fess up MDB folks. Stop pouting.

[Guest]

(This is John -- I just want to apologize for the anger and frustration that permeates this post. I now regret sending it. I believe that there are many more constructive ways to communicate than this. So my apologies in advance.)

Somebody please capture his post via copy/paste (oh wait, I already have).

It's so classic...and condemning. I have incontrovertible proof of 1) the existence of the essay/hit piece....2) his knowledge about it....3) the GA condemnation of the whole enterprise....and 4) his direct censure (as it relates to all this).....so his use of the word "alleged" stands as a classic, yet condemning example of his continued disingenuous-ness as an apologist. The only thing that keeps me from releasing the evidence is my respect for those (including the GA's) who have supported me -- but you can count on him and his followers to take advantage of me in this regard (plausible deniability -- another classic LDS apologetic tactic...it's their whole foundation...really...when you get right down to it).

Does anyone else note how sad it is that Daniel Peterson now communicates from a solo blog where he doesn't even allow comments.....that he no longer even has the ability or credibility to directly engage in the difficult conversations? This is LDS apologetics in the 20th and 21st centuries...retreat only to places where you are surrounded by supporters...because if you engage critics directly in a neutral forum....you come off looking so silly...as if you are trying to prove the location of Santa's workshop.

I really, honestly, truly feel sorry for Daniel Peterson, Mike Ash, Allen Wyatt, Scott Gordon, Trevor Holyoak, John Lynch, Jack Welch, etc. They have built their houses upon sand, and now the foundation is slowly washing away. Even the brethren seem to see the writing on the wall (though we obviously have a long way to go in that regard). Still -- so much of their life's work is truly (and unfortunately) an embarrassment and damaging to the church, Mormonism and Mormons alike: a sad, destructive sham.

So I feel sorry for them that in some sense, they have been (and ultimately will be) left out to dry. As dupes. More importantly, I feel sorry for them that in trying to be helpful to the situation, they have only accelerated the pain/damage.....vs. served as a constructive part of the solution. The data from our survey are very clear (at least to me) -- LDS apologetics accelerate disaffection and disillusionment from the LDS church, because: 1) their responses are often mean-spirited and un-Christlike, and 2) they are simply not credible (i.e. tapirs, steel isn't steel, etc.)...so when someone who is truly struggling reads their stuff, they eventually walk away saying, "If this is the best that the church can do....then I'm outta here."

Up until now (2012), LDS apologetics have been a tragic, damaging, train-wreck-of-an embarrassment to everyone involved. May it rest in peace.

My suggestion to this board: At some point, it's time to ignore the troll(s)....and move on. They're just. not. credible...and honestly do not deserve our (or anyone's) attention any longer. The scholarly/scientific community ignores them (see previous comment about Santa and the North Pole). The believing bloggernacle ignores them (except to mock or condemn them). Mormonism writ large ignores them. It is only us (and the Deseret News) who gives them life/airplay. I think that the smartest thing Mormon Discussions could ever do would be to stop giving them air time...and let them fade away.

They are just....not....credible in any meaningful way, shape or form. They are a tragic, damaging joke. If I weren't so thoroughly exposed on a daily basis to the damage they have done (and continue to do) to thousands of Mormons and to the church, I would not speak so harshly. But I am....so I do.

My 2 cents.

My message to FAIR/FARMS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmj6JADOZ-8

Please stop. You're hurting people. You're hurting the church. You are embarrassing yourselves, and Mormonism writ large. Please, please, please find another way. Anytime you want me help...I'll be there for you. I can help you. Just call or email. 435 227-5776 mormonstories@gmail.com

[_lostindc]

Ray,

I am not sure what is so difficult to understand:

message board posts are not equal to a published piece in a quasi-scholarly journal.

To attempt to equate message board 'trash talk' to that of a hit piece published in a peer reviewed journal is silly. Last I checked, message board posts do not go through a peer-review prior to publication.

[_Drifting]

So we have nothing to go off of, but Daniel is guilty all because Scratch suggested he might be? This is why I love this place. I get plenty of chuckles out of the need to go after certain Mormons all why feigning some attempt to come off as objective, thoughtful, and deep. It is utterly adorable. No one seems to get the rich irony in all of this. Otherwise intelligent people acting like little boobs.

Pages ago I offered a CFR for any of this. Nothing. Is this all just about whining about others because you have no part in the play? Can't be something as trivial as that, can it? Fess up MDB folks. Stop pouting.

ssssssshhhhhhh....the grown ups are talking...

[_stemelbow]

Somebody please capture his post via copy/paste (oh wait, I already have).

It's so classic...and condemning. I have incontrovertible proof of 1) the existence of the essay/hit piece....

So we know there was some thing written, right? As I understand it you haven't seen it, right? What are we even talking about? To be fair, which it seems is not happening here at all, what Daniel called alleged is not an essay, but a "smear" or "hit piece". It seems whatever it is, he wouldn't call it what no one here has even seen.

2) his knowledge about it....3) of the GA condemnation of the whole enterprise....

So...CFR. what is the incontrovertible proof of this? Can anyone see this, or shall we all trust another?

and 4) of his direct censure (as it relates to all this).....so his use of the word "alleged" stands as a classic, yet condemning example of his continued disingenuous-ness as an apologist.

look. He might have been censured. I don't doubt it. It could have happened even if it was not a smear or hit piece. Things get way overblown in these parts. Who knows what we're even talking about? I sure don't.

Does anyone else note how sad it is that Daniel Peterson now communicates from a solo blog where he doesn't even allow comments.....that he no longer even has the ability or credibility to directly engage in the difficult conversations? This is LDS apologetics in the 20th and 21st centuries...retreat only to places where you are surrounded by supporters...because if you engage critics directly in a neutral forum....you come off looking so silly...as if you are trying to prove the location of Santa's workshop.

ouch. That's a lot of hostility for the man.

I really, honestly, truly feel sorry for Daniel Peterson, Mike Ash, Allen Wyatt, Scott Gordon, Trevor Holyoak, John Lynch, Jack Welch, etc. They have built their houses upon sand, and now the foundation is slowly washing away. Even the brethren seem to see the writing on the wall (though we obviously have a long way to go in that regard). Still -- so much of their life's work is truly (and unfortunately) an embarrassment and damaging to Mormonism and Mormons alike: a sad, destructive sham.

So I feel sorry for them that in some sense, they have been (and ultimately will be) left out to dry. As dupes.

But ultimately, they chose this path.....and they have done so, so much damage to so many people....I can't say I'm sad to see their brand of apologetics die off. Which it is....and will continue to do so.

Up until now (2012), LDS apologetics have been a tragic, damaging embarrassment to everyone involved. May it rest in peace.

Interesting prediction. I guess we'll all see how it all plays out.

My suggestion to this board: At some point, it's time to ignore the troll....and move on. He's/they're just not credible...and honestly do not deserve our attention any longer. I think that the smartest thing Mormon Discussions could ever do would be to stop giving them air time...and let them (LDS apologists) fade away.

They are just....not....credible in any meaningful way, shape or form. They are a tragic, damaging joke. If I weren't so thoroughly exposed to the damage they have done (and continue to do), I would not speak so harshly. But I am....so I do.

My 2 cents.

Interesting two cents. The main objective as I see from folks here is to attack apologists. If they stop that, they may end up actually doing something meaningful.

[_Stormy Waters]

Who knows what we're even talking about? I sure don't.

That is par for the course.

[_mormonstories]

My message to FAIR/FARMS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmj6JADOZ-8

Please stop. You're hurting people.

[_RockSlider]

stemelbow,

sometimes its best to bow out once you have been so, so far outclassed.

[_stemelbow]

stemelbow,

sometimes its best to bow out once you have been so, so far outclassed.

Why is no one willing to answer questions on this topic? Its so weird. Are you the guy who went after Daniel relentlessly on Liz's old board? Can't remember.