Doctor Scratch wrote:Even though Hamblin is singling out Kevin and Paul for attack, I'm willing to bet that each of them knows far more about the Book of Abraham issues that Hamblin does. In fact, it occurs to me that Bill and Dan really aren't very good Mopologetic friends to Gee at all. They've been content all these years to just let him get torn to shreds by Metcalfe, Mortal Man, CK, and others--and they do virtually nothing to help him. Why doesn't Dan or Bill try to publicly defend the KEP or the Book of Abraham? I don't think I've ever seen either of them wade into the debate. Instead, they rely on people like Gee, Schryver, and Hauglid to act as cannon fodder. I'm sure that one of their responses would be, "Well, we don't have the relevant degrees," etc., but this is cast into a problematic light given their support of Schryver.
There is this recent article by Dan in the Desert News.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
dblagent007 wrote:I find it hard to believe that Gee can be dishonest and ignorant with his Book of Abraham apologetics, but then be a top scholar in Egyptology. I think it is more likely that he does shoddy work in both.
I don't find it hard to believe at all. First of all, he is not invested in what the ancient Egyptians were up to in the same way he is invested in his faith. With his faith, there is a predetermined conclusion that must be reached. With his Egyptology, there is no particular orthodoxy that calls for him to defend it as an apologist. His Egyptological work is submitted to the review of peers who are interested in good scholarship, not the "Eternal Truth of Almighty God."
These are quite different situations, with quite different standards and expectations. Gee may be a fine Egyptologist and a dreadful apologist at the same time. My guess is that being a good Egyptologist may actually make his apologetics worse.
I don't think the two are as disconnected in Gee's mind as you suggest. Did he not once bare testimony (on MST if I recall) that without the Church, Egyptology would not exist?
Not quite, here's the quote from MST:
What if the Church of Jesus Christ is not true? If “life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more, . . . a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing,” then Egyptology is a waste of time.
Reading his testimony on that site shows how connected he sees his faith and his Egyptology.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Doctor Scratch wrote:Even though Hamblin is singling out Kevin and Paul for attack, I'm willing to bet that each of them knows far more about the Book of Abraham issues that Hamblin does. In fact, it occurs to me that Bill and Dan really aren't very good Mopologetic friends to Gee at all. They've been content all these years to just let him get torn to shreds by Metcalfe, Mortal Man, CK, and others--and they do virtually nothing to help him. Why doesn't Dan or Bill try to publicly defend the KEP or the Book of Abraham? I don't think I've ever seen either of them wade into the debate. Instead, they rely on people like Gee, Schryver, and Hauglid to act as cannon fodder. I'm sure that one of their responses would be, "Well, we don't have the relevant degrees," etc., but this is cast into a problematic light given their support of Schryver.
I doubt that Danny-boy & Billy-boy ([Telestial-caliber insinuations deleted]) have copies of the KEP and know jack s*** on how to defend Joseph Smith's wild theories & ideas. Be advised that these boys are just a couple of school teachers on the Church payroll and they totally lack any qualifications in arguing Mormon Egyptology vs. conventional Egyptology.
Poor little John Gee, it's a wonder he is even able to sleep at night knowing what he knows. What a miserable soul he is! His real duty is to inform the Church that Joseph Smith screwed up. But he is a coward and a yes-man. The poor son of a bitch can't even think for himself. The Church has done all the thinking for him. He is nothing but a single celled creature with an IQ of 10.
Doctor Scratch wrote: Instead, they rely on people like Gee, Schryver, and Hauglid to act as cannon fodder. I'm sure that one of their responses would be, "Well, we don't have the relevant degrees," etc., but this is cast into a problematic light given their support of Schryver.
And let's not forget that Schryver-boy is more than a loose canon spouting off nasty things against women -- he is a former acid head and drug user who propably considered the church nothing more than a pile of rat turds.
Drifting wrote:I don't find it hard to believe at all. First of all, he is not invested in what the ancient Egyptians were up to in the same way he is invested in his faith. With his faith, there is a predetermined conclusion that must
I don't think the two are as disconnected in Gee's mind as you suggest. Did he not once bare testimony (on MST if I recall) that without the Church, Egyptology would not exist?
Not quite, here's the quote from MST:
What if the Church of Jesus Christ is not true? If “life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more, . . . a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing,” then Egyptology is a waste of time.
Reading his testimony on that site shows how connected he sees his faith and his Egyptology.
Peer review provides an independent, non-LDS standard for judging his work. It doesn't matter that Mormonism helps him get up in the morning to do it.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Doctor Scratch wrote:Even though Hamblin is singling out Kevin and Paul for attack, I'm willing to bet that each of them knows far more about the Book of Abraham issues that Hamblin does. In fact, it occurs to me that Bill and Dan really aren't very good Mopologetic friends to Gee at all. They've been content all these years to just let him get torn to shreds by Metcalfe, Mortal Man, CK, and others--and they do virtually nothing to help him. Why doesn't Dan or Bill try to publicly defend the KEP or the Book of Abraham? I don't think I've ever seen either of them wade into the debate. Instead, they rely on people like Gee, Schryver, and Hauglid to act as cannon fodder. I'm sure that one of their responses would be, "Well, we don't have the relevant degrees," etc., but this is cast into a problematic light given their support of Schryver.
What exactly does Hamblin bring to apologetics? Does he even do any, or does he sit there on his corpulent butt and take cheap shots?
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
Bob Loblaw wrote:What exactly does Hamblin bring to apologetics?
I have heard that he is an expert in Old Black Magic.
I've heard he's good with ink, but not so great on measuring stuff...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
We have been taken to task for quoting in reply to the Egyptologist of 1912 the observations of Mormons who were not Egyptologist. We quoted them because what they said was to the point, and the Egyptologist never answered them. One does not have to be a meteorologist to report that the sky is clear or that it is snowing.
or that data is missing.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."