A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

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_Chap
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Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _Chap »

The 'Text and Context' piece begins like this:

As with a number of previous Signature publications, New Approaches to the Book of Mormon received a hearty welcome from fundamentalist Protestant anti-Mormons. The Whittier, California, chapter of Concerned Christians and Former Mormons, for instance, devoted its August 1993 evening meeting to the theme "Mormon Scholars Question the Book of Mormon," and its newsletter hailed New Approaches in an article entitled "The Book of Mormon Continues Loosing [sic] Credibility." And, in a subsequent newsletter, they not only "highly recommend" the book, but announce that they have it for sale.1 Jerald and Sandra Tanner's Utah Lighthouse Ministry likewise carries the book.2 (Stan Larson's critique of 3 Nephi 12-14 had already received favorable attention from the Tanners long before it was incorporated into New Approaches.)3 J. Edward Decker's organization, Saints Alive in Jesus, which co-produces the "God Makers" movies, announced New Approaches in a "Special Update Report" for July 1993 (incorrectly claiming, along the way, that "every one of the contributors [to the Metcalfe volume] began the project believing that the Book of Mormon was a genuine ancient document"). New Approaches was the subject of the cover story in the Fall 1993 issue of "Mormonism Researched," the newsletter of Bill McKeever's California-based Mormonism Research Ministry. "Interesting," wrote Mr. McKeever, "is the fact that much of the rationale presented by these scholars is strikingly similar to the polemics which Christians [sic] have been raising for years."4

In 1992, I offered a fairly comprehensive portrait of what seems to me (and to others) a characteristic and unmistakable ideological tendency in many of Signature's productions.5 There is no need to repeat that exercise here. Nonetheless, emboldened by Signature director Gary James Bergera's recent allowance, in the Salt Lake Tribune, that "Mr. Peterson and his associates are free to give vent to every expression they may experience [sic], however immature and tasteless,"6 I should like to offer a few general remarks on the context from which New Approaches has emerged. It seems to me that the dispute between defenders of the Book of Mormon and the traditional truth claims of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, on the one hand, and those who would revise or redefine those truth claims, on the other, is as much a clash of opposing world views as a quibble over this or that piece of evidence. I shall also point to a crucial issue that the book raises but avoids. I cautiously hope that such remarks will be well received, along with the comments of the other contributors to this Review, since, according to a news report recently broadcast on Salt Lake City's KTVX-TV, "the editor of New Approaches welcomes criticism from LDS scholars and leaders."7



and contains this savorous section.

In the brilliant third chapter of Degenerate Moderns, entitled "Homosexual as Subversive," E. Michael Jones demonstrates the crucial and explanatory role of personal lifestyle not only in the traitorous career of Sir Anthony Blunt, but in the theories of John Maynard Keynes, the biographical writings of Lytton Strachey, and the novels of E. M. Forster. "Modernity was the exoteric version of Bloomsbury biography; it was a radically homosexual vision of the world and therefore of its very nature subversive; treason was its logical outcome. . . . The Bloomsberries' public writings—Keynes' economic theories, Strachey's best-selling Eminent Victorians, etc.—were the sodomitical vision for public consumption."55 Reflecting upon the development of the characters in Forster's long-suppressed book, Maurice, Jones notes that, "In the world of this novel it's hard to tell whether declining religious faith fosters homosexuality or whether homosexuality kills faith. At any rate Forster sees a connection. . . . As their involvement in sodomy increases, so also does their opposition to Christianity."56 That denial of the truths one can know about God should lead to sodomy is in some sense a mystery," concludes Jones. "However, it is a mystery that can be fairly well documented, from Paul's epistle to the Romans to any objective view of modern British history."57 In any event, it seems clear that immorality (not merely of the homosexual variety) and intellectual apostasy are, and always have been, frequent (though not invariable) companions. (Joseph Smith's famous announcement of a link between adultery and sign-seeking is apropos here.)58 Sodom and Cumorah are apparently not compatible.

The illustrious early twelfth-century Muslim philosophical theologian al-Ghazali noted the same linkage in his day:

Now, I have observed that there is a class of men who believe in their superiority to others because of their greater intelligence and insight. They have abandoned all the religious duties Islam imposes on its followers. They laugh at the positive commandments of religion which enjoin the performance of acts of devotion, and the abstinence from forbidden things. They defy the injunctions of the Sacred Law. Not only do they overstep the limits prescribed by it, but they have renounced the Faith altogether.59

It is certainly not irrelevant to this theme that Abu 'Ubayd al-Juzjani, the admiring disciple and biographer of one of those of whom al-Ghazali spoke, the famous eleventh-century Perso-Arab philosopher Avicenna (Ibn Sina), thought that "the Master's" relatively early death occurred because of his overindulgence in sexual pleasures.60


Well, as Bergera remarked (see above) DCP is free to say what he wants about his opponents "however immature and tasteless" it may be.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Pahoran
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Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _Pahoran »

Doctor Scratch wrote:I honestly don't see how Ray A can be taken seriously. He's basically defending things like "Metcalfe is Butthead,"

Yes, Mormon apologists are just so mean that you have to go back how many years to an unpublished acrostic to prove your point.

Doctor Scratch wrote:Seth calling the Mopologists "douche bags" is every bit as valid as Dan Peterson calling Ron Priddis a "sodomite."

And since you've failed entirely to support that accusation, it stands refuted.

Your lap-dog's failure to bail you out makes your lie all the more obvious.

Regards,
Pahoran
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Let's adjust those quotes slightly:

Pahoran wrote:And yet it is consistent with revealed truth:

Doctrine and Covenants 42:23
23 And he that looketh upon Jennifer Lopez's butt on SocialCam to lust after her shall deny the faith, and shall not have the Spirit; and if he repents not he shall be cast out.

Doctrine and Covenants 63:16
16 And verily I say unto you, as I have said before, he that looketh upon Jennifer Lopez's "hot booty shaking" on SocialCam to lust after her, or if any shall commit adultery in their hearts, they shall not have the Spirit, but shall deny the faith and shall fear.


Speaking of which, didn't DCP publicly apologize to everybody recently for having pornography on his Facebook page?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Pahoran
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Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _Pahoran »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Thanks, Everybody Wang Chung. Let's just say that there are much worse things that one could be other than a "jerk." Being friends with a homophobic bigot, for example, seems like a worse thing to be, in my opinion.

While being an anti-Mormon bigot in your own right, and one who has maintained a years-long campaign of defamation and spite against someone who, on his worst day, is a better person than you can even imagine yourself being on your best day, might be worse again.

Regards,
Pahoran
_Pahoran
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Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _Pahoran »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:Dr. Scratch,

I am probably one of the few people who hadn't read Daniel Peterson's "Text and Context" until today: http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/publica ... m=1&id=147

I am flabbergasted. I don't see how anybody could read "Text and Context" and not come to the conclusion that Daniel Peterson is extremely homophobic.

Then I'll explain it to you.

1) They read and believe the Scriptures of the church to which they claim to belong.
2) Proverbs 28:1 doesn't apply to them.

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:There is absolutely no place for this in the Church.

Wrong, as usual.

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:It's troublesome, to say the least. Liz? Ray? Schryver? Pahoran? Could someone please, for the love of God, explain to me how this is acceptable?

See above.

Regards,
Pahoran
_Pahoran
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Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _Pahoran »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Let's adjust those quotes slightly:

Thank you for admitting that you have no cogent response, so you have to resort to smut-talk.

Doctor Scratch wrote:Speaking of which, didn't DCP publicly apologize to everybody recently for having pornography on his Facebook page?

He apologised to anyone who might have come across an image that had been put there by a hacker.

Evidently someone who knows how to hack a Facebook page.

Evidently someone who has a measure of personal malice against Dan Peterson.

I wonder if it was (Moderator Note)in real life information deleted.

Regards,
Pahoran
_Yoda

Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _Yoda »

Kishkumen wrote:
liz3564 wrote:I actually did read the article, and I can understand what you meant by your claim, although he never used the exact phrasing that you claim was used.


So, what do you think, liz?

Why is there this pattern of snuggling up to subjects like these?

To spook people who are afraid of the big bad gay?

To work on their prejudices in order to warn them off of reading the "wrong" material?

Personally, I think the implications of these moves are pretty clear, and I think the impact that they have is damaging.

I don't think they ought to be excused simply because the author dances around the issue.

Kish, I understand what you are saying regarding this particular piece, however, I think we have to remember how long ago this article was written. This is an article that was written back in 1994...nearly 20 years ago. Even if you are not willing to take Dan at his word about using the examples as a dramatic way to demonstrate how different people's lifestyles view their perception of material, particularly relgious material, I think we need to keep in mind how long ago the article was written, and how much more we have discovered about homosexuality in the past 20 years. Look at how the attitude of the Church, itself, has changed over that time.

The Church is never going to accept homosexuality as a norm. It will always be viewed as a sin. However, I think that there has been progress in how the homosexual person is received as a Church member. You are no longer automatically excommunicated if you are homosexual. The Church does recgonize that homosexuality is something that is not a choice. The choice comes in acting or not acting upon that homosexuality.
_Yoda

Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _Yoda »

Pahoran wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:Let's adjust those quotes slightly:

Thank you for admitting that you have no cogent response, so you have to resort to smut-talk.

Doctor Scratch wrote:Speaking of which, didn't DCP publicly apologize to everybody recently for having pornography on his Facebook page?

He apologised to anyone who might have come across an image that had been put there by a hacker.

Evidently someone who knows how to hack a Facebook page.

Evidently someone who has a measure of personal malice against Dan Peterson.

I wonder if it was (Moderator Note)in real life information deleted.

Regards,
Pahoran

(Moderator Note) Pahoran, please refrain from using in real life information on the board. This is your one warning.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

liz3564 wrote:Kish, I understand what you are saying regarding this particular piece, however, I think we have to remember how long ago this article was written. This is an article that was written back in 1994...nearly 20 years ago.


The problem with this is that there is no indication that Dan's views have in any way changed--he's merely grown more circumspect about what he says. You can reference his comments about Ron Priddis (which I was going to post and link if Ray ever got around to holding up his end of the bargain), or even his 2006-2007 comments about Mike Quinn's sexuality. If I recall correctly, Kishkumen contacted DCP and urged him to repudiate the article and its views, but DCP steadfastly refused. As I recall, Dan was more concerned that Jones has been exposed as a massive anti-semite, such that he was relieved of his position at Notre Dame. So, barring any actual evidence to the contrary, what we *do* have shows very clearly a pattern of bigoted, anti-gay views and behavior.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_lulu
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Re: A New Smear Piece in "Mormon Interpreter"

Post by _lulu »

liz3564 wrote: I think we have to remember how long ago this article was written. This is an article that was written back in 1994...nearly 20 years ago.


The old "everbody was racist" defense.

liz3564 wrote:The Church is never going to accept homosexuality as a norm. It will always be viewed as a sin.


Quite the prophetic hat you're wearing.

Have you ever read:

Gay/Lesbian Liberation: A Biblical Perspective (1984)
Matlovich: The Good Soldier (1989)
Jesus Acted Up: A Gay and Lesbian Manifesto (1993)

If not, you're running way behind. All of them would have been available to DCP when he published.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
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