I'm so glad the church spares no expense...

[_LCD2YOU]

I am just curious whether the critics who have become somewhat exercised over this issue may view themselves as waxing a bit judgemental and/or as having become somewhat of a "busy body" and a gossip?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

What precisely is gossipy in nature discussing how money is spent by the LDS Church?

Since I am not here to judge or gossip, I will leave that to each individual to decide for themself.

Then why in the world would you ask that question?

by the way, you might wanna head on over to a few other threads where people talk about the horrors of the apostates and how they're lazy louses that suck.

Why?

Because your post dealt with "gossip" and being "judgmental". I assumed that interested you! Apparently it only does in one instance?

That might fit your bill a bit more.

What are you presupposing is "my bill"?

Uh, you showed an interest in "gossip", etc... Can you read your first post again? I'm sorry, perhaps you stating that you want people to consider their actions made me assume you actually cared when people acted in the manner that you wanted them to consider. My bad!

Of course is it judgmental to call someone out for being a gossip or a busy body? Maybe?

Again, I will leave answering that to those doing the "calling out" to decide for themselves. I am not in a position to answer since I have done nothing of the sort.

Uh, then why bring it into the conversation? You want people to consider their actions and mention "busy body" etc... and yet are not intending to suggest that some of that is going on in this thread? That makes sense!

Oh, the twisted web we weave. ;)

Who are you including in the "we", and what web are you supposing is being weaved?

Well it's a quote. I should have said, "What a twisted web Wenglund weaves!" I actually like the illiteration of that! The twisted web would be where you ask others to consider their behavior and include in the behavior to be considered "judgemental" -- and of course that is in itself making a judgement call on whether gossip and being a busy body is something you frown upon. No?

I think there's a phrase for it: "Pot, meet kettle"

[_Moniker]

think there's a phrase for it: "Pot, meet kettle"

Well, there's no fun alliteration in that! Yet, it is succinct. I've been hangin' with Coggies too much apparently. :)

[_wenglund]

I am just curious whether the critics who have become somewhat exercised over this issue may view themselves as waxing a bit judgemental and/or as having become somewhat of a "busy body" and a gossip?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

What precisely is gossipy in nature discussing how money is spent by the LDS Church?

Since I am not here to judge or gossip, I will leave that to each individual to decide for themself.

Then why in the world would you ask that question?

The fourth word in my innitial question explicitly states at least part of my reason. The other part of my reason I prefer to keep to myself, though I can assure you it isn't about me wishing to or having judged or gosssiped about the critics who may have gotten somewhat exercised here.

by the way, you might wanna head on over to a few other threads where people talk about the horrors of the apostates and how they're lazy louses that suck.

Why?

Because your post dealt with "gossip" and being "judgmental". I assumed that interested you!

It does.

Apparently it only does in one instance?

I don't understand. How is that apparent--particularly in light of my genuine declaration to the contrary?

That might fit your bill a bit more.

What are you presupposing is "my bill"?

Uh, you showed an interest in "gossip", etc... Can you read your first post again? I'm sorry, perhaps you stating that you want people to consider their actions made me assume you actually cared when people acted in the manner that you wanted them to consider. My bad!

I appreciate your perspective. Would it interest you to learn that I held no expectations that the question would be directly answered, but proffered it as a way of transitioning towards a yet unmentioned end. As such, one would not be able to extrapolate from the question, itself, what "my bill" here is. I hope that helps.

Of course is it judgmental to call someone out for being a gossip or a busy body? Maybe?

Again, I will leave answering that to those doing the "calling out" to decide for themselves. I am not in a position to answer since I have done nothing of the sort.

Uh, then why bring it into the conversation?

I have my reasons--which have nothing to do with me being judgemental and/or "calling out" anyone on this thread.

You want people to consider their actions and mention "busy body" etc... and yet are not intending to suggest that some of that is going on in this thread? That makes sense!

I am glad you now see it that way since that is the reasonable and accurate way I had hoped you would see it.

Oh, the twisted web we weave. ;)

Who are you including in the "we", and what web are you supposing is being weaved?

Well it's a quote. I should have said, "What a twisted web Wenglund weaves!" I actually like the illiteration of that! The twisted web would be where you ask others to consider their behavior and include in the behavior to be considered "judgemental" -- and of course that is in itself making a judgement call on whether gossip and being a busy body is something you frown upon. No?

No.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Moniker]

Wade, I often appreciate your attempts to bridge the divide and ask people to have productive conversations. Just in this instance I find it interesting that you ask others to consider their actions and yet seem to not be able to ask yourself the same question. I am a gossip (although I try not to be), I am judgmental, and I'm a big buggerboo of a sinner. Yet, I try really hard not to be a hypocrite -- perhaps this is why organized religion doesn't appeal to me? ;)

I suggest if you want people to consider their actions as it relates to gossip and being judgmental there are plenty of posts and threads where that is appropriate. I just wanted to understand (from your pov) where you may see that in this thread. Of course you can't do that (and I'll take your word on it that you don't see these behaviors in this thread but merely want to toss it out for others to consider) because if you actually pointed out poor behavior then that would make you judgmental. It's rough being a Christian sometimes, ain't it?

[_wenglund]

No, it's not gossip, nor are we judgmental, Wade. Perhaps you'd like to elaborate a little more?

No need to elaborate. Your direct answer is what I was looking for, though I wasn't expecting to get such. If that is the way you honest perceive your actions (and I have no reason to believe it is not), then I am fine with that. I appreciate you responding.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Wade, I often appreciate your attempts to bridge the divide and ask people to have productive conversations. Just in this instance I find it interesting that you ask others to consider their actions and yet seem to not be able to ask yourself the same question. I am a gossip (although I try not to be), I am judgmental, and I'm a big buggerboo of a sinner. Yet, I try really hard not to be a hypocrite -- perhaps this is why organized religion doesn't appeal to me? ;)

Actually, it was my own introspection about the conversation that prompted me to query what I did. Prior to jumping in to the discussion, I had asked myself the same questions regarding certain responses I was beginning to formulate in my mind. The personal answers that I came up with to those questions motivated me to forego continued formulation and voicing of those responses in lieu of the query I ended up making and "the bill" I have in mind. I was just curious to learn if anyone else did likewise, and if not, then upon doing so, whether they came to the same conclusion about themslelves as I came to about the responses I had been formulating. And, if they came to different conclusions, then I would be fine with that (as evinced by my response to harmony).

I am not sure what my actual intents and actions have to do with your dislike of organized religion, but I will take your word for it that you see a connection.

I suggest if you want people to consider their actions as it relates to gossip and being judgmental there are plenty of posts and threads where that is appropriate.

I appreciate the suggestion.

I just wanted to understand (from your pov) where you may see that in this thread.

Again, that is not for me to judge--which is why I inquired rather than judged.

Of course you can't do that (and I'll take your word on it that you don't see these behaviors in this thread but merely want to toss it out for others to consider) because if you actually pointed out poor behavior then that would make you judgmental.

My interest is not in judging or pointing fingers or criticizing myself or others. Rather, I wish to find what "works" best in helping us all to love and be loved, to respect and value and be respeced and valued, and become the happiest and best people we can--as we each determine that for ourselves. This means that while I may certainly carefully and thoughtfully assess my own behavior and that of others, it will be in terms of fucntionality (does it "work" in everyone's best interest) rather than in terms of pronouncing or exacting judgement.

It's rough being a Christian sometimes, ain't it?

I personally haven't found that to be the case, though I ccan respect if you personally have.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Moniker]

I'm not going to break up the post with quotes because quite frankly that is troublesome to me and more than my fragile mind can endure.

So, as to organized religion -- Christianity in this case. It seems often those that profess to be Christians, and are earnest in following the gospel, wish not to judge others. Yet, often times they fall short on that. I have no desire to hold myself up to such standards. I'm just lazy. I would see of those that do try to hold themselves to such a high standard that they may be in quite the pickle when they find themselves judging others morality or sinfulness as the judgment is in and of itself not appropriate for a Christian. Quite the quandary, I'd think! I was thinking that may be where you found yourself in this thread. Yet, perhaps not.

On to the next thing: I appreciate your contributions to this board when you come in and try to navigate calm, reasonable discussions. So as to your motives I'll take you at your word.

Finally, I have no personal experience with being a Christian. Yet, as I went into above, I would imagine it takes one of great character and determination to be morally righteous and never find themselves judging another.

[_Mister Scratch]

I am just curious whether the critics who have become somewhat exercised over this issue may view themselves as waxing a bit judgemental and/or as having become somewhat of a "busy body" and a gossip?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hi there, Wade. My answer is: No. Instead, I view myself as being an honest critic of the Church who finds it appalling that hard-earned tithing dollars would be flushed away on such frivolities.

And really, what business does the founder of websites such as the "Same-sex Attraction Disorders Clinic," and theories such as the "Mr. D Theory" have in doling out "judgemental" posts such as yours?

[_The Nehor]

I am just curious whether the critics who have become somewhat exercised over this issue may view themselves as waxing a bit judgemental and/or as having become somewhat of a "busy body" and a gossip?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hi there, Wade. My answer is: No. Instead, I view myself as being an honest critic of the Church who finds it appalling that hard-earned tithing dollars would be flushed away on such frivolities.

And really, what business does the founder of websites such as the "Same-sex Attraction Disorders Clinic," and theories such as the "Mr. D Theory" have in doling out "judgemental" posts such as yours?

I find it appalling that you're appalled.

[_Mister Scratch]

I am just curious whether the critics who have become somewhat exercised over this issue may view themselves as waxing a bit judgemental and/or as having become somewhat of a "busy body" and a gossip?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hi there, Wade. My answer is: No. Instead, I view myself as being an honest critic of the Church who finds it appalling that hard-earned tithing dollars would be flushed away on such frivolities.

And really, what business does the founder of websites such as the "Same-sex Attraction Disorders Clinic," and theories such as the "Mr. D Theory" have in doling out "judgemental" posts such as yours?

I find it appalling that you're appalled.

Of course you are. Just like you're "appalled" at getting called "a sheep," despite comments such as:

If the Church released a complete report on tithes and exactly how they are spent I probably wouldn't read it.

Follow the Leader, Nehor! When the leaders speak, the thinking has been done! Follow the prophet!

As for this, I have to say I'm kind of stunned at your complete, cold-hearted lack of sympathy:

I know they build Temples, build and maintain meetinghouses, apportion budgets, pay for the Elder's Quorum Steak and Halo parties, maintain administration at Church HQ, Mission Administration, maintain Universities, buy, invest in, and maintain outside interests that the Brethren believe are necessary. Looking at the numbers people act like they're shocked that more tithing isn't spent on aiding the poor. I was surprised that any was spent. This is what Fast Offerings are for.

(emphasis added)

Screw them, right? It's their own fault? The Church doesn't exist to help anyone?