Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

[_Juggler Vain]

Why doesn't God just "inspire" the people with incorrect views not to include the incorrect views? If God can communicate with mortals and give them "inspiration" why is he limited so that he can't correct their incorrect views? Doesn't make any sense. It's like if my kid writes a history paper and gives it to me to review, and I correct half his errors but leave the other half in the paper without correction. Is it my kid's fault or mine that the errors are printed in the final paper he submits?

People aren't God's sock puppets and are therefore imperfect. God still uses imperfect people to achieve his purposes. We should recognize this nature and be a bit more realistic about it.

Equality's kid isn't a sock puppet either, so his point still stands.

-JV

[_Tobin]

People aren't God's sock puppets and are therefore imperfect. God still uses imperfect people to achieve his purposes. We should recognize this nature and be a bit more realistic about it.

Equality's kid isn't a sock puppet either, so his point still stands.
-JV

Not really. Equality and his kids are going to make plenty of mistakes. The example only works if Equality was perfect AND did all the work himself (even if he makes the kid write it - it is still his work). In other words, the kid is his sock puppet.

[_Drifting]

If the racism in the Book of Mormon is actually a Nephite mistake, how come the Church today propagates it by teaching it to children as per the OP?

[_bcspace]

Why doesn't God just "inspire" the people with incorrect views not to include the incorrect views? If God can communicate with mortals and give them "inspiration" why is he limited so that he can't correct their incorrect views? Doesn't make any sense. It's like if my kid writes a history paper and gives it to me to review, and I correct half his errors but leave the other half in the paper without correction. Is it my kid's fault or mine that the errors are printed in the final paper he submits?

What if he thinks he's got it and doesn't need your help? He will find out when he gets his graded paper back and learn a lesson. In any case, you're just assuming the LDS case is wrong. You actually have no evidence of that.

[_Drifting]

Why doesn't God just "inspire" the people with incorrect views not to include the incorrect views? If God can communicate with mortals and give them "inspiration" why is he limited so that he can't correct their incorrect views? Doesn't make any sense. It's like if my kid writes a history paper and gives it to me to review, and I correct half his errors but leave the other half in the paper without correction. Is it my kid's fault or mine that the errors are printed in the final paper he submits?

What if he thinks he's got it and doesn't need your help? He will find out when he gets his graded paper back and learn a lesson. In any case, you're just assuming the LDS case is wrong. You actually have no evidence of that.

And what is the 'LDS case'? You know...officially....

[_Darth J]

People aren't God's sock puppets and are therefore imperfect. God still uses imperfect people to achieve his purposes. We should recognize this nature and be a bit more realistic about it.

Yes, because when we're talking about a thousand-year civilization of Hebrews who fought with steel swords and practiced Christianity in pre-Columbian America, whose record was translated into ersatz Jacobean English with a magic rock, we want to be realistic about it.

[_Darth J]

But it may have just been a genetic mutation and they attributed it to God cursing the Lamanites with a dark skin as an outward sign of how evil they were.

I would like to know about this genetic mutation that spontaneously appeared in a small immigrant population coming from the same family lines, and that coincidentally only affected those members who rejected the Christianity that was being practiced circa 600 B.C.

Tell me more about the mechanics of how this would work.

You can not just read things in the Bible or Book of Mormon and simply accept them at face value.

Totally agree. We should read things in the Book of Mormon and simply accept them at face value.

2 Nephi 5

21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be centicing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.

24 And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey.

Tobin, who do you feel is more authoritative as to what the Lord said and did with respect to the Lamanites? You, or Nephi?

[_Chap]

24 And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey.

No-one seems to have noticed an extra component of the curse by which the LDS deity punished the Lamanites for their wickedness.

Not only did their skins turn black - they also changed their hunting habits so that instead of pursuing herbivores like deer, they felt a strange inner impulse to go after 'beasts of prey' instead - i.e. predatory carnivorous species.

This was bad for them in two ways:

1. Given the natural structure of the food web, there are always a lot fewer 'beasts of prey' than there are of the species on which they prey. So it was a lot harder for the poor blackened Lamanites to find meat for the pot. No wonder they didn't have the energy to do much else - hence no doubt their reputation for idleness.

2. The flesh of land carnivores such as cougars is just not very nice compared to that of the herbivores they prey on. So even when they got some meat to eat, it was rather yucky, and put them in an even worse temper. Hence their increased level of aggression.

See how easy it is to make sense of the Book of Mormon, so long as you have intelligence above the level of a 6 year old? Of course, it helps if the Panda appears to you and tells you it is true (see the video clip in Tobin's avatar, which shows how he looked that one time), but you should be able to work things out for yourself.

[_Themis]

Why doesn't God just "inspire" the people with incorrect views not to include the incorrect views? If God can communicate with mortals and give them "inspiration" why is he limited so that he can't correct their incorrect views? Doesn't make any sense.

From the perspective that God is not involved it makes perfect sense. The mistake some make in trying to defend the Book of Mormon is to appeal to the Bible. The problem it is also man-made even though it is much older then 1830. You are right that once we try to bring God into the equation it no longer makes sense. We have to start making all kinds of excuses why God wouldn't do this or that.

When looking at racism in the Book of Mormon, we only need look to the 19th century. It's really only in that light can we see some of the thinking of the 19th century. It fits perfectly. The problem is that members want to believe the Book of Mormon is inspired of God so getting rid of that past racist thinking is extremely hard.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

People aren't God's sock puppets and are therefore imperfect. God still uses imperfect people to achieve his purposes. We should recognize this nature and be a bit more realistic about it.

Tobin Translator:

God is Machiavelli.

- VRDRC