Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

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_AlmaBound
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _AlmaBound »

Paul, I had forgotten Cowdery was a schoolteacher. Wonder if he had this book?
_Kishkumen
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

Nevo wrote:
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:Although, I think one would be hard pressed to say that the terms, "freemen", "stripling", "fine workmanship", "curious workmanship", etc. don't border on plagiarism.

I don't know. When I type "curious workmanship" into a Google Books search there are more than 30 pages of hits just for the period between 1800 and 1825. I think it's safe to say that that expression was "in the air" when Joseph dictated the Book of Mormon.


Since you have volunteered for the job, find out how many of these works contain the phrase "curious workmanship" in reference to weapons, ships, and metal balls (inclusively), but not other things.

Thanks in advance.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

AlmaBound wrote:An aside, but curious - Why does Hunt continually use the term Sanhedrim?

ETA: and the term shekel when referring to weights.


Personally I thought the reference to the mammoth was cool.

Cureloms and cumoms?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

AlmaBound wrote:Paul, I had forgotten Cowdery was a schoolteacher. Wonder if he had this book?


That's a good question.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_AlmaBound
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _AlmaBound »

Kishkumen wrote:
AlmaBound wrote:An aside, but curious - Why does Hunt continually use the term Sanhedrim?

ETA: and the term shekel when referring to weights.


Personally I thought the reference to the mammoth was cool.

Cureloms and cumoms?


That's what I thought too.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

Gadianton wrote:fyi, for those who wish to do quick text searches:

http://www.archive.org/stream/latewarbe ... t_djvu.txt

Everybody Wang Chung's mention of freemen meant that there had to be a king-men freemen controversy within "Columbia":

15 Now it happened about this time that
there were numbers of the inhabitants of the
country of Columbia whose hearts yearned
after the king of Britain.

16 These men were called Tories, which
signifieth, in the vernacular tongue, the blind
followers of royalty.

17 And with their false flattering words
they led astray some of the children of Co*
lumbian Liberty ; for their tongues were
smoother than oil.

18 Evil machinations entered into their
hearts, and the poison of their breath might
be likened unto the deadly Bohon Upas,


Interesting find, Dean.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Spanner
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Spanner »

After a wee look,I have found a few more parallels not in the KJV...

"fair daughters":
3 x in Book of Mormon
4 x in Late War (e.g. Chap LIV verse 35)
not in KJV

"encompassed ...about"
3 x in Book of Mormon
3 (at least) in Late War (e.g. Chap XXV verse 9)
not in KJV
("encompasseth" appears in both Late War and the D&C, not the KJV)

"cause of liberty"
Alma 51:17
2 x (at least) in Late War (e.g. Chap XXIV verse 15)

"brave men"
3 Nephi 3:3
Many times in Late War
("brave" and "brave men" not in KJV at all)

"fled in confusion"
3 x in Late War (e.g. Chap LIV verse 21)
"fled in much confusion"
Alma 52:28
Not in KJV

This at least reflects 19th century phrasing in the Book of Mormon that doesn't derive from Hebrew or the KJV.
_Equality
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Equality »

The Erotic Apologist wrote:
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:7. Their polished steels of fine workmanship Chapter LIV

Does the phrase "polished steel" occur in the Book of Mormon?

I ask because the phrase "polished steel" would have been especially relevant to Americans who served in the regular army during the War of 1812.

"Polished steel" refers to the American soldier's custom of polishing the barrel of his musket until the bare metal shone like fine steel--a never ending and laborious chore. The British, on the other hand, chemically-treated the barrels of their muskets to prevent corrosion, imparting a characteristic brown color to the metal, hence the phrase "Brown Bess".

Note the "polished steel" barrel of the .69 caliber smoothbore musket in the image below. If this were a Brown Bess, the barrel would appear black.

Image

"Polished steel" does not appear in the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith was smart enough to know that ancient Americans did not have the ability to smelt steel, so he never would have made the mistake of putting steel into the Book of Mormon. :-)

But "polished shaft" appears in 1 Nephi 21:2.
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_Shulem
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Shulem »

Nevo wrote:
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:Although, I think one would be hard pressed to say that the terms, "freemen", "stripling", "fine workmanship", "curious workmanship", etc. don't border on plagiarism.

I don't know. When I type "curious workmanship" into a Google Books search there are more than 30 pages of hits just for the period between 1800 and 1825. I think it's safe to say that that expression was "in the air" when Joseph dictated the Book of Mormon.


William Shakespeare used it too:

"The richer sort of these were composed of gold, silver, or ivory, of curious workmanship"

I'm sure that the phrase was around and Joe & Oliver liked the term.

Paul O
_Kishkumen
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Kishkumen »

I hope Chris Johnson makes his word study available before long.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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