David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

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Chap
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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by Chap »

IWMP wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2024 10:28 am
I always visualise the story line of the Book of Mormon to be after the old testament. I see the Bible as two different books.
I am a Nevermo who came from a background that ensured that large parts of the English of the King James translation lodged in my head. When I was a teenager, me and my friends could fairly easily compose satirical prose, usually following Old Testament models, in which our classmates and teachers were made fun of in pretty correct KGV style language.

When I came to read the Book of Mormon, my immediate reaction was to say "Hmm. This guy is trying to write "Bible English". But he keeps on getting it wrong and messing up the grammar. Worse than that, he sometimes says things that clearly come out of an early 19th century American mind, rather than that of a Jew more than a thousand years ago.

You say that you see the Bible as "two different books". I agree that the Old Testament and New Testament are very different in nature (and of course neither part is a single unified 'book', but rather a collection of texts that were not originally written to go together, but assembled later). But if you could read the original texts rather than an English translation, you would have that impression much more clearly, since the Old Testament is nearly all written in Hebrew (there is a bit of Aramaic), while the New Testament is in Greek, which at the time the New Testament was written was the universal language in the eastern Roman empire, spoken by large parts of the population as at least their second language.
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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by IWMP »

Chap wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:27 pm
IWMP wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2024 10:28 am
I always visualise the story line of the Book of Mormon to be after the old testament. I see the Bible as two different books.
I am a Nevermo who came from a background that ensured that large parts of the English of the King James translation lodged in my head. When I was a teenager, me and my friends could fairly easily compose satirical prose, usually following Old Testament models, in which our classmates and teachers were made fun of in pretty correct KGV style language.

When I came to read the Book of Mormon, my immediate reaction was to say "Hmm. This guy is trying to write "Bible English". But he keeps on getting it wrong and messing up the grammar. Worse than that, he sometimes says things that clearly come out of an early 19th century American mind, rather than that of a Jew more than a thousand years ago.

You say that you see the Bible as "two different books". I agree that the Old Testament and New Testament are very different in nature (and of course neither part is a single unified 'book', but rather a collection of texts that were not originally written to go together, but assembled later). But if you could read the original texts rather than an English translation, you would have that impression much more clearly, since the Old Testament is nearly all written in Hebrew (there is a bit of Aramaic), while the New Testament is in Greek, which at the time the New Testament was written was the universal language in the eastern Roman empire, spoken by large parts of the population as at least their second language.
Sounds a bit catholicy :)
It does read like the KJV. I can see what you mean. That's probably why it is comfortable to read the Book of Mormon with the KJV. The church I go to most often uses the NIV, I've kind of gotten used to that but I always feel like the KJV feels more spiritual. Maybe because the language needs more interpretation.

I did know that the Bible is made up of different books literally but the Old Testament reads chronologically as if it is one book so that's why I visualise it that way.
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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by Chap »

Pirate -

What was 'catholicy' about what I posted? I'm not offended, just curious.

In the time of my youth, if I had been brought up as a Roman Catholic, I'd have been either using the ancient Latin translation of the Bible known as the Vulgate, or the so-called Douai translation into English, which was completed in 1610. But I was an Anglican (the original form of the US Episcopalian Church).
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by IWMP »

Chap wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2024 1:06 pm
Pirate -

What was 'catholicy' about what I posted? I'm not offended, just curious.

In the time of my youth, if I had been brought up as a Roman Catholic, I'd have been either using the ancient Latin translation of the Bible known as the Vulgate, or the so-called Douai translation into English, which was completed in 1610. But I was an Anglican (the original form of the US Episcopalian Church).
That's as far as my experience extends :lol:

Made me think of catholic schools. I assumed you were British. You describe it in a way that made me think of intense Christianity which in the UK would make me think catholic.
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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by yellowstone123 »

Chap wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:27 pm
IWMP wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2024 10:28 am
I always visualise the story line of the Book of Mormon to be after the old testament. I see the Bible as two different books.
I am a Nevermo who came from a background that ensured that large parts of the English of the King James translation lodged in my head. When I was a teenager, me and my friends could fairly easily compose satirical prose, usually following Old Testament models, in which our classmates and teachers were made fun of in pretty correct KGV style language.

When I came to read the Book of Mormon, my immediate reaction was to say "Hmm. This guy is trying to write "Bible English". But he keeps on getting it wrong and messing up the grammar. Worse than that, he sometimes says things that clearly come out of an early 19th century American mind, rather than that of a Jew more than a thousand years ago.

You say that you see the Bible as "two different books". I agree that the Old Testament and New Testament are very different in nature (and of course neither part is a single unified 'book', but rather a collection of texts that were not originally written to go together, but assembled later). But if you could read the original texts rather than an English translation, you would have that impression much more clearly, since the Old Testament is nearly all written in Hebrew (there is a bit of Aramaic), while the New Testament is in Greek, which at the time the New Testament was written was the universal language in the eastern Roman empire, spoken by large parts of the population as at least their second language.
Beautifully said. Thank you, Chap.
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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by Markk »

Gadianton wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2024 2:22 am
Markk wrote:Well my bad, but my point still stands. He needs to stand up and go toe to toe with him. My post is relevant to all his assertions on DCP, whether true of or not.
Actually, he can do whatever he wants. Free country. For now at least.
And he does, and so can you , I, and DCP....so?

For me seeing some one so hateful to the man, pure hate, and not identifying himself is weak. I respect the heck out of the Paul O's. that go after him (the church) without hiding....You have to admit that Scratch does come off as some kind of sick stalker from a basement somewhere, which is my free country opinion. Especially now that DCP is pretty much irrelevant in Mopology. This board is the only thing really keeping him the "apologetic news."
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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by I Have Questions »

Markk wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2024 12:42 pm
Especially now that DCP is pretty much irrelevant in Mopology. This board is the only thing really keeping him the "apologetic news."
I think that’s a spot on assessment.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Sheesh, Markk. Why are you so angry?

Also, this board has like 30-50 readers. Calm yourself.

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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by Marcus »

I Have Questions wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2024 4:43 pm
Markk wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2024 12:42 pm
Especially now that DCP is pretty much irrelevant in Mopology. This board is the only thing really keeping him the "apologetic news."
I think that’s a spot on assessment.
Yes. I would only add that he does everything possible to spread what he thinks this board says in an effort to stretch the attention. Here's from his latest post:
...Incidentally, there was a complaint over on the Peterson Obsession Board a few weeks ago to the effect that I imagine, quite falsely, that my citing a few (hundred) examples...
A few weeks ago?!! If indeed it even happened, I'm sure this isn't his first mention of it.
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Re: David Bokovoy Issues a Devastating Critique of the Mopologists' "Scholarship"

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Markk,

There is no other person who has gone toe to toe with DCP as much as Dr. Scratch.

Also, Dr. Scratch hasn't really tried that hard to be anonymous. There are several people here and elsewhere who know him in real life. And, it drives DCP crazy that he doesn't know the identity of Dr. Scratch. DCP and the Mopologists have wasted hundreds of hours trying to dox him. That in of itself is more than enough of a reason for Dr. Scratch to not reveal his identity.

Finally, why in the world would any sane person reveal his identity online? We've seen over and over the Mopologists contact employers or academic advisors in an attempt to destroy the careers or academic reputation of anyone they perceive as an enemy.

Mopologists/DCP are weird and unhinged.
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