John Gee's book review and thoughts:

[_CaliforniaKid]

Trevor,

You're right, of course. This is precisely the sort of "phallus-brandishing" bloodbath I usually refuse to participate in.

-Chris

P.S. I had written a couple more sentences to this post, but upon rereading them found that they sounded really, really nasty. Why did you have to bring phalluses into it?

[_KimberlyAnn]

Trevor,

You're right, of course. This is precisely the sort of "phallus-brandishing" bloodbath I usually refuse to participate in.

-Chris

P.S. I had written a couple more sentences to this post, but upon rereading them found that they sounded really, really nasty. Why did you have to bring phalluses into it?

Yeah, Trevor, you shouldn't mention phalluses. Generally, it's a woman's job to bring those up.

(I just couldn't resist! Besides, this thread needed a little levity. ;))

KA

[_Mister Scratch]

"Really? What was your nom de guerre?"

Put up, or shut up, right?

No, no! Sorry! I didn't mean to come across as threatening or aggressive or anything like that. Was just curious, that's all.

On a.r.m. I think I was Neo... short for Neoptolemus, sometimes Bellerophon or Aristaios (I think).

On ZLMB and FAIR I was both Julian Apostate and Hyrum/Hiram Page.

Here I was Hiram Page, I think, which was shortly before I took a break.

I have done and said plenty of silly things in my time, some of which seem to have gotten my IP address blocked at MA&D. I hope you guys will allow me a fresh start.

Hey, we've all done and said silly things. In any case: a hearty and belated Welcome! I seem to recall some very interesting and provocative posts of yours from FAIR/MAD. It is good to have you on the board.

[_Mister Scratch]

I'm afraid that I don't think you've established that. Kevin, so far as I know, has simply compared you with Gee, and has identified your underlying motive as being Mopologetic in nature. I'm not sure what about that is "problematic". Did you not say yourself that your beliefs color your work, so to speak?

The fact that one’s own beliefs color one’s work in biblical studies does not mean that one’s underlying motive is apologetic in nature.

It doesn't? If I happen to believe that gay marriage ought to be legalized, and I am training to get my Ph.D. in psychology, and everything I write and publish seems somehow aimed at convincing others about the "okayness" of gay marriage, does that therefore mean that my "underlying motive" is political?

I enjoy pointing out on message boards what I see as evidence that supports my theological views. This of course does not mean, as Kevin suggests, that my primary goal for pursuing higher education is apologetic.

How much of your agenda/motive *is* apologetic? (Just out of curiosity.)

[_guy sajer]

Trevor,

You're right, of course. This is precisely the sort of "phallus-brandishing" bloodbath I usually refuse to participate in.

-Chris

P.S. I had written a couple more sentences to this post, but upon rereading them found that they sounded really, really nasty. Why did you have to bring phalluses into it?

I've sheathed my phallus back in its scabbard and I'll try to make it a point to brandish it only at the beck and call of the fair Lady Sajer. It got out of hand, and I take responsiblity for it. My apologies to Dan and even to RCrocket. As far as I'm concerned, the topic is now done.

So, moving on, I'm curious Trevor, what details can you give about your new position? How much can you reveal? In a way, I'm envious. I miss academics at times (though not BYU). It was a great lifestyle, and I enjoyed it up until the very end (though it was time to move on when I did).

I wish you the best of luck.

[_karl61]

Trevor,

You're right, of course. This is precisely the sort of "phallus-brandishing" bloodbath I usually refuse to participate in.

-Chris

P.S. I had written a couple more sentences to this post, but upon rereading them found that they sounded really, really nasty. Why did you have to bring phalluses into it?

I've sheathed my phallus back in its scabbard and I'll try to make it a point to brandish it only at the beck and call of the fair Lady Sajer. It got out of hand, and I take responsiblity for it. My apologies to Dan and even to RCrocket. As far as I'm concerned, the topic is now done.

So, moving on, I'm curious Trevor, what details can you give about your new position? How much can you reveal? In a way, I'm envious. I miss academics at times (though not BYU). It was a great lifestyle, and I enjoyed it up until the very end (though it was time to move on when I did).

I wish you the best of luck.

that would be a great signature line.

[_CaliforniaKid]

In any case: a hearty and belated Welcome! I seem to recall some very interesting and provocative posts of yours from FAIR/MAD. It is good to have you on the board.

Yeah, stop with the provocative posts; there are ladies present! Geez, no wonder they banned you over there...

[_guy sajer]

Got that, s***h***?

I am so sorry. I wish you only the best. Did you find a job yet?

rcrocket

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is sincere.

It is me who should apologize. I should not have gone off on you like I did. I'm sorry. That one was all on me.

In answer to your question, I've had a job all along. I started my own consulting firm back when I was at BYU, and when I left, I jumped into the consulting full time. It is going quite well so far. I've developed for myself a nice little lucrative niche.

If you were further sincere in a later post about cutting back on insults, I'm game if you are. If you are sincere about this, I am prepared to be. Tit for tat.

It looks like I'll be seeing ya round these parts.

[Guest]

Dan, I deleted what I originally wrote here. Like Trevor, I am getting tired of this pissing contest. I'm willing to call a truce, and we both can assume our superiority if we so deisre. I will endeavor to limit my criticism of you in this regard and try to move on.

I'm perfectly happy with the idea.

I have never, ever, attempted to portray myself as superior to you. I know little of your academic career, and relatively little of your field -- although I flirted briefly with the idea of pursuing a Ph.D. in economics, particularly after a summer partially (and wonderfully) spent with Friedrich von Hayek, Milton Friedman, Murray Rothbard, George Stigler, and various others of like mind and stature at the University of St. Andrews, in Scotland -- and I have no problem acknowledging that you were likely a respectably, or even more than respectably, productive member of the BYU faculty.

I understand that your generation of faculty were hired under a different set of circumstances.

I was hired at BYU in 1985, under, I assume, much the same regime that you were. You do wrong to suppose that I have not been productive.

I came to BYU with my dissertation topic just approved. I had to invent a full-fledged program in Arabic and Islamic studies and to teach an exceptionally heavy load of classes -- including new courses on Arabic language and literature, Islamic philosophy, Islam as a religion, the humanities of the Islamic world, etc. -- while working on an extraordinarily abstruse dissertation (on an esoteric early-eleventh-century Isma‘ili Shiite Neoplatonist, none of whose voluminous works, only recently made public by the Isma‘ili sect, had ever been translated into any Western language and who had never been the subject of any study by any Western scholar) for which nobody between the University of California and the University of Chicago could offer me even the slightest help of any kind. Did this slow me down? Absolutely. Have I been sitting on my hands? Not nearly as much as you think.

I think that were we to meet in person, we'd get along famously. I here your a swell guy in person, and I'm certainly less of an arrogant jerk in person than in cyber space.

Let me leave it at that, and we can look forward to much jousting ahead in a reasonably civil manner. We will probably never agree on much, but that's what makes this fun.

I'm happy to have some sort of a rapprochement. I wouldn't be surprised, myself, if we got along reasonably well. I'm not the demonically vicious and unscrupulous monster that Scratch and Rollo Tomasi portray; people (even those who reject virtually every opinion I hold) seem to like me well enough, and I virtually always like them. I have to confess that I've found the situation here increasingly unpleasant, and I don't like what the exchanges almost invariably become. I leave tomorrow night for a month in Europe, and I'm not sure that I'll be coming back here when I return. (Except, of course, to announce publications, and the like.) But I will feel better if, as seems to be happening in at least your case, things wind down with considerably less vitriol.

[_Polygamy Porter]

I leave tomorrow night for a month in Europe, and I'm not sure that I'll be coming back here when I return.

Really? Like we have NEVER heard that threat before...

by the way Daniel, much of Europe has internet access. Good Luck!