JSJr's Face-in-the-Hat: Troubling to the Faithful

[_Drifting]

This is the most recent General Conference talk about the translation of the Book of Mormon.
It's from 1995 by
Robert K. Dellenbach then of the Seventy.

My dear brothers and sisters, do we realize the profound miracle that is the translation of the Book of Mormon? A miracle is “an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs” (Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, s.v. “miracle”). Consistent with that definition, the translation of the Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith is indeed a modern-day miracle.

The Book of Mormon is presently in print in over eighty languages and is now being translated or prepared for publication in many, many more. Consider the Church’s current process of translating the Book of Mormon from English into another language. The Church contracts capable, experienced member translators who are fluent in English as well as their native tongue who possess integrity and high moral character so that the spirit of inspiration will guide their work. Just as in Joseph Smith’s day, the ability to translate holy writ today is a spiritual gift from God.

Unlike Joseph’s day, however, many of our modern translators utilize computers and word processors, lexicons and encyclopedias to help and guide them in their sacred assignment. The modern work is extensive, and each step must be critically analyzed by Church translation experts. Yet, even with the most competent member translators and advanced technology available, the entire process, from beginning to publication, requires approximately four years.

Now contrast the translation of the Book of Mormon by young Joseph Smith. Joseph was raised on a farm in upstate New York and was only twenty-four years of age at the time he completed his translation of this sacred record from reformed Egyptian to English.

He had little financially and was busy supporting his wife and family. Of necessity, he planted and harvested crops, chopped wood, hauled water, and cared for animals.

The conditions under which Joseph translated were less than ideal. His life was threatened and mobs tried to rob him of the plates, requiring him to hide the ancient records and often move them from place to place (see Joseph Smith—H 1:60). Joseph had no telephone, no dictating equipment, fax, word processor, or copy machine—not even electric light.

Joseph had little formal education, perhaps no more than three years of elementary school. Prior to his translation Joseph had not enrolled in a university. There were no literary magazines or academic periodicals delivered to his doorstep. He never visited South America or the Middle East. He belonged to no professional societies, had performed no extensive research projects, nor did he have learned colleagues with whom to discuss the ancient text of the plates. He may have studied basic reading, writing, and arithmetic and perhaps a little American history. We know he read the Bible in English, but by the standards of the world, Joseph was neither a scholar nor a theologian, much less a professional translator of holy scriptures.

What skills did Joseph possess to aid in his translation? Oliver Cowdery, who was the principal scribe for the Book of Mormon, said of Joseph’s source of translating power that “the Prophet Joseph Smith … translated [the Book of Mormon] by the gift and power of God, by the [assistance or] means of the Urim and Thummim” (“Last Days of Oliver Cowdery,” Deseret News, 13 Apr. 1859, p. 48).

Typically a literary work undergoes extensive revisions and editions before a final, finely tuned draft is completed. For example, Abraham Lincoln rewrote his Gettysburg Address five different times, each version varying slightly from the other (see World Book Encyclopedia, 1992 ed., s.v. “Gettysburg Address”).

In preparing for this conference address, I had the glorious experience of quietly examining several pages of Joseph’s original manuscript of the Book of Mormon, which is safely protected in the Church archive. I was overwhelmed at the purity of the transcription, which had only a very few insignificant corrections, such as a misspelled word. Joseph’s original manuscript is so perfect it could only have come from one source—divine revelation.
On Joseph’s shoulders rested not only the translation of the Book of Mormon but also the restoration and reestablishment of the Church of Jesus Christ. Even as Joseph translated, he received many revelations and visitations from heavenly messengers who gave him additional important assignments, such as the restoration of the priesthood and the revelation on baptism (see Joseph Smith—H 1:68–75). Joseph’s many responsibilities often interrupted the translation process, sometimes for several months. Yet, once Joseph was free to dedicate his entire effort to translation, the work surged forward and he translated eight to ten pages a day, completing the preponderance of the Book of Mormon translation in approximately sixty-three working days (see John W. Welch and Tim Rathbone, “The Translation of the Book of Mormon: Basic Historical Information,” Provo, Utah: F.A.R.M.S., 1986, p. 14).

Oliver, reflecting on this miraculous event, testified, “Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated … the history, or record, called ‘The Book of Mormon’” (Latter Day Saints’ Messenger and Advocate, Oct. 1834, pp. 14–16).

Joseph was the first person in over fourteen hundred years to read the words of the Savior as written by Nephi, Alma, Mormon, Moroni, and the other prophets of the Book of Mormon. His ability to translate was nothing short of a “marvelous work and a wonder” (2 Ne. 25:17).

Joseph’s original English translation, except for a few minor grammatical and textual emendations, remains the text that we use today and is the standard for all other language translations of the Book of Mormon throughout the world (see Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed. Daniel H. Ludlow, 4 vols., New York: Macmillan, 1992, s.v. “Book of Mormon manuscripts”). As Nephi of old prophesied, his “words shall [whisper] forth unto the ends of the earth, for a standard unto [his] people” (2 Ne. 29:2).

Could any one of us today produce such a work? Could a thousand of the world’s best theologians and scholars of ancient languages or antiquities write a similar book of such supernal, transcendent value?

No other person with such limited education and facility as Joseph has single-handedly translated in such a short period of time from ancient writings over five hundred pages of scriptural text. That translation now has seventy-three million books in distribution.

Joseph’s translation of this ancient, sacred scripture has withstood the scrutiny of many skeptics. The Book of Mormon stands as a miraculous work for the world to examine. This divine spark from heaven, over 165 years ago, has ignited a flame that is dawning a new day. No wonder “the Spirit of God like a fire is burning!” (Hymns, 1985, no. 2). All over the world people are seeking the witness of Jesus Christ as found in the Book of Mormon. They come from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. As was revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith, “The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name” (D&C 122:1). And why are they seeking after the name of Joseph Smith? Because the Book of Mormon testifies of the divinity and atonement of the Savior, Jesus Christ. Because Joseph is the prophet of the Restoration.

With deep appreciation for the miracle that transpired through the translation of the Book of Mormon, we sing:



Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!

Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.

Blessed to open the last dispensation. …

Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.

I testify that the translation miracle of the Book of Mormon clearly evidences that Joseph is a prophet of God, called to “lay the foundation of [Christ’s] church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth” (D&C 1:30). The Book of Mormon is the “keystone of our religion” and will bring us “nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 194). May we appreciate this miraculous translation, and may it be our desire to come to know and follow the Savior through his teachings in the Book of Mormon, I humbly pray in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

[Guest]

In my response (the one that linked to four PDF files), I was addressing specifically your statement that read

No, the information we have is the only information we have, all of which is the head-in-the-hat thing

Linking the supposed place one could find your point for you is a typical Mormon tactic. If one were to entertain your goose chase through a myriad of distortion, you would then exit the conversation, or claim what was pointed out wasn't what you were referring to, and then exit the conversation. If you have a point to make, then make it by quoting the portion you claim "crushes" the opposing argument. Once you do this, we'll know what supposed point contradicts the historical facts already quoted.

My response was more than crushing to that statement. We (by "we" I mean those who bother to do a little research) can find numerous examples of historical documents which describe the translation process as something other than the "head-in-the-hat thing."

Yet you failed to quote even one "historical document" to back up your argument.

[Guest]

Here is the most recent Ensign article, October 2011, that tells of the translation method.

The Prophet Joseph Smith: Translator of the Book of Mormon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The Book of Mormon is a unique book of scripture. Although ancient prophets wrote it, it did not come to us as the Bible did. The Bible was recorded largely on scrolls in the Old World as separate books and copied by scribes for centuries. Only by the fourth century after Jesus Christ were these separate books combined and made available as the one volume we refer to as the Holy Bible.

The Book of Mormon, by contrast, was recorded by ancient prophets in the New World on metal plates, abridged primarily by one prophet—Mormon (hence the title)—in the fifth century A.D. into one record on golden plates. His son, Moroni, later buried the plates, where they remained until 1827, when Moroni, as a resurrected being, delivered them to a young man named Joseph Smith.

What follows is the story of how Joseph received, translated, and published the record now titled the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. The Savior Himself testified that the book is true (see D&C 17:6).

1.
In 1820 a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith lived near Palmyra, New York. Though young, he was concerned about his standing before God and confused by the claims of various Christian religions that sought converts by discounting the claims of the others. Motivated by his study of the Bible, Joseph decided to seek wisdom by asking God, who “giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not” (James 1:5). He went into the woods near his home to pray.

2.
As Joseph knelt and prayed, a brilliant pillar of light fell upon him. In it he saw two Personages. Heavenly Father spoke and said, “This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!” (Joseph Smith—History 1:17). The Lord told Joseph not to join any of the churches because none of them were true, but he was promised “that the fullness of the Gospel should at some future time be made known unto [him].”1

3.
Three years passed, during which Joseph Smith shared his experience with others—and was persecuted for it. He reported: “Though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and … I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it” (Joseph Smith—History 1:25).

4.
On September 21, 1823, Joseph was praying when light filled his attic bedroom and an angel named Moroni appeared. Moroni told Joseph about some writings by ancient prophets. The record, engraved on golden plates, was buried in a nearby hill. Joseph was informed he was to translate the record.

5.
Finally, on September 22, 1827, Joseph was entrusted with the plates, lifting them from a stone box buried under a large stone on a hill near Palmyra, New York.

6.
As was common in rural areas in those days, Joseph Smith was largely uneducated. To assist him with the translation, God provided for him an ancient translation instrument called the Urim and Thummim. He was also blessed by the help of scribes who wrote what he dictated as he translated. Among these scribes were his wife, Emma; Martin Harris, a prosperous farmer; and Oliver Cowdery, a schoolteacher. The bulk of the translation work was finished less than three months after Oliver began serving as scribe.

Emma described what it was like to serve as Joseph’s scribe: “No man could have dictated the writing of the manuscripts unless he was inspired; for, when [I was] acting as his scribe, [Joseph] would dictate to me hour after hour; and when returning after meals, or after interruptions, he would at once begin where he had left off, without either seeing the manuscript or having any portion of it read to him.”2

Joseph explained the significance of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon: “By the power of God I translated the Book of Mormon from hieroglyphics, the knowledge of which was lost to the world, in which wonderful event I stood alone, an unlearned youth, to combat the worldly wisdom and multiplied ignorance of eighteen centuries, with a new revelation.”3

7.
During the 18 months he had the plates, Joseph wasn’t the only one to see or handle them. Three men—Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris—formally testified that the angel Moroni showed them the golden plates and that they knew the plates had “been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us.” Eight other men also testified that they had seen and handled the golden plates.4

8.
By August 1829, Joseph had contracted with publisher Egbert B. Grandin of Palmyra, New York, to print the volume. Martin Harris mortgaged his farm to pay for the book’s printing, and on March 26, 1830, the Book of Mormon was available for purchase.

9.
On April 6, 1830, about 60 people assembled in a log home in Fayette, New York. There, as directed by the Lord Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith formally organized the Savior’s Church, restored as it was originally organized and led by apostles and prophets, authorized to speak for God. Later revelation to Joseph Smith gave the Church its name: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (see D&C 115:4).



Since 1830 millions of people have read the Book of Mormon and have joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because of the Book of Mormon’s witness of the Savior. The book is also evidence that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that the Savior leads His Church today. Millions of people have tested and found true Moroni’s promise to all honest seekers of truth: “I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost” (Moroni 10:4).

Is this the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

What did Apostle Oaks say about not giving people the whole truth? That's right, it was the same as lying. By Oaks' definition the October Ensign lied to the members of the Church.

[_thews]

I have said the same exact thing. If it was done with a hat his face would be close to the hat but not in it. Between the light coming from the hat, breathing, and speaking and then being heard by the scribe would be impossible with the head in a hat.

What part of "he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it" don't you understand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Smith

"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."

[_sock puppet]

Is this the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

What did Apostle Oaks say about not giving people the whole truth? That's right, it was the same as lying. By Oaks' definition the October Ensign lied to the members of the Church.

By Oaks' definition, when hasn't he been lying to us?

[_Darth J]

So, let's see: claiming to score a point by ignoring the plain dictionary meaning of the word "contemporary".......mischaracterizing the issue.......arguing from ignorance based on vague statements by non-witnesses who were not addressing the translation method (merely the alleged source of its power).......relying on circular reasoning (the inaccurate paintings are honest because they are based on inaccurate history).....evading the issue......proclaiming victory when you have provided no evidence to refute the OP......calling eyewitness statements by believing early Mormons "critical documents"..........

Dear Darth J: If you will take a moment to leave the goalposts at the location in which they were originally planted we could get somewhere.

Today's entry in the "Internet Mormon Phrase of the Day Calendar:"

Moving the goalposts: 1. the failure to accept an internet Mormon's unsupported assertions at face value. 2. the refusal to accept an internet Mormon's non-responsive statements as an answer.

Nobody has changed the issue from the lack of any person observing Joseph Smith purporting to translate the golden plates describing any mechanics other than the magic rock in a hat. The reason you call it moving the goalposts when I'm not accepting your vague generalities that do not describe any other mechanics of translation is because all you want to do is repeatedly assert an irrelevant conclusion.

In my response (the one that linked to four PDF files), I was addressing specifically your statement that read

No, the information we have is the only information we have, all of which is the head-in-the-hat thing

My response was more than crushing to that statement. We (by "we" I mean those who bother to do a little research) can find numerous examples of historical documents which describe the translation process as something other than the "head-in-the-hat thing."

Sorry, old bean, but what I am telling you is the truth.

Your response was entirely irrelevant. The people who talked about seeing the magic-rock-in-the-hat method all believed that Joseph Smith was working under the influence of divine inspiration. There is not a single thing you have cited that says what Joseph Smith did when he translated the Book of Mormon. You do not present a different method of translation by quoting non-Mormon newspaper writers who say nothing more specific than Joseph Smith's followers believe the Book of Mormon was translated by "divine inspiration" (or words to that effect).

Gee, people who believed that the Book of Mormon came to Joseph Smith by divine means also believed that he translated it by divine means? No crap.

I'd say you have a bright future in Mormon apologetics.

Because I bother to read a little?

Exactly: you read "a little," instead of reading complete, relevant statements and keeping them in context.

Now, issues aside from my post which was a specific response to your statement above.

No, general statements that the Book of Mormon was translated by "divine means" or by "the spirit of inspiration" do not address the specific issue of what Joseph Smith did under the influence of that divine inspiration. Show me a statement by a person who was watching Joseph Smith purporting to translate the golden plates where that person describes the actions Joseph Smith was doing that are not "he was looking at a magic rock in a hat." (Note for our Mopologist/internet Mormon friends: putting quotes around that last statement does not mean, to any reasonable person, that you win if you find a statement that does not use those exact same words. It means a statement that conveys that message in substance.)

Correlated church paintings are based upon official Church publications combined with correlated materials. In the Joseph Smith translation case, it's based on the account in Joseph Smith history which I quoted earlier.

Since you remain stuck in this circular argument when the issue is that official Church stuff is not accurate, let's demonstrate your reasoning process.

1. Someone drew a picture of Darth Vader.



2. This picture is consistent with the way Darth Vader is depicted in the Star Wars movies.

3. Therefore, Star Wars is a true story.

Paintings, admittedly, show things in a better light then they probably were

Thank you for conceding what the OP is saying.

(see my King George III example above).

Your King George III example is inapplicable to the issue in this thread. Joseph Smith already has become increasingly handsome over time in paintings by the faithful.





But talking about painting someone to be better looking than he may have actually been (although I don't dispute that Joseph Smith was a good-looking guy) is not relevant to talking about paintings claiming to depict a historical event. To be relevant to the issue in this thread, your example would have to be something like a painting of King George III landing on Mars.

Any reasonable person understands these things, and any reasonable person knows that the church does not deny the seer stone method; one only need look at the BYU website where a simple search for "seer stone" turned up about 374 results. On LDS.org it turned up 14 results.

Then it should be no problem at all for you to post an officially-sanctioned LDS depiction of Joseph Smith using a seer stone in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon. Let's see it.

[_Darth J]

So, can anyone find a statement by someone who was around when Joseph Smith was translating the Book of Mormon who says he or she saw this?

[_Themis]

But, speaking as one basically writes every day and often writes very long and complicated briefs, it used to be that my initial drafts were dictated. I can't imagine anybody having a clue as to what I said if I had my face in a hat. It can't be done, it can't be heard, especially hour after hour with scribes being forced to use fountain pens.

You can easily enough communicate with your face in a hat. I have already given examples to whyme. It may not be comfortable to do for hours on end, but then that is the apologists position that he did, not the critical position.

[_Radex]

Today's entry in the "Internet Mormon Phrase of the Day Calendar:"

Moving the goalposts: 1. the failure to accept an internet Mormon's unsupported assertions at face value. 2. the refusal to accept an internet Mormon's non-responsive statements as an answer.

Nobody has changed the issue from the lack of any person observing Joseph Smith purporting to translate the golden plates describing any mechanics other than the magic rock in a hat. The reason you call it moving the goalposts when I'm not accepting your vague generalities that do not describe any other mechanics of translation is because all you want to do is repeatedly assert an irrelevant conclusion.

Your response was entirely irrelevant.

Then your statement was irrelevant, since your statement was what I was responding to. Here is the statement again

No, the information we have is the only information we have, all of which is the head-in-the-hat thing

It is clearly false, as I've shown repeatedly. We have much more information than only the head-in-the-hat thing.

The people who talked about seeing the magic-rock-in-the-hat method all believed that Joseph Smith was working under the influence of divine inspiration. There is not a single thing you have cited that says what Joseph Smith did when he translated the Book of Mormon.

That's correct, because I needed no such citations to respond to your statement.

You do not present a different method of translation by quoting non-Mormon newspaper writers who say nothing more specific than Joseph Smith's followers believe the Book of Mormon was translated by "divine inspiration" (or words to that effect).

Half a minute: are you saying that you would trust LDS sources about the method of translation? If so, I refer you to correlated LDS pictures and paintings.

No, general statements that the Book of Mormon was translated by "divine means" or by "the spirit of inspiration" do not address the specific issue of what Joseph Smith did under the influence of that divine inspiration.

But you said that the only information we had was "head-in-the-hat-thing," which is the statement I was responding to, and which is clearly false.

And, oh dear, I seem to have found a source which sites

Magic Spectacles, or some other powerful optical instrument

And, what do you know, spectacles again!

A pair of spectacles, of strange and peculiar construction were found with the plates, to aid the optics of the prophet. Soon after another very fortunate circumstance occurred. This was the introduction of Oliver Cowdry, to whom, and whom only, was given the ability— with the aid of spectacles— to translate the mysterious characters

And, by Jove! Here is an account that states the means of translation was

two large jewels resembling diamonds

There are quite a bit of these non "stone-in-the-hat-thing" statements. Your statement that

No, the information we have is the only information we have, all of which is the head-in-the-hat thing

is embarrassingly silly, Darth J.

Since you remain stuck in this circular argument when the issue is that official Church stuff is not accurate, let's demonstrate your reasoning process.

1. Someone drew a picture of Darth Vader.

2. This picture is consistent with the way Darth Vader is depicted in the Star Wars movies.

3. Therefore, Star Wars is a true story.

I believe it would be more along the lines of

1. Someone drew a picture of Darth Vader.

2. This picture is consistent with the way Darth Vader is depicted in the Star Wars movies, as well as multiple accounts of eyewitnesses who have seen and interacted with Darth Vader. It is also consistent with personal revelation that many believing Star Wars fans have received.

3. Therefore, Star Wars is a true story.[/quote]

But talking about painting someone to be better looking than he may have actually been (although I don't dispute that Joseph Smith was a good-looking guy) is not relevant to talking about paintings claiming to depict a historical event. To be relevant to the issue in this thread, your example would have to be something like a painting of King George III landing on Mars.

Right. Historical paintings are always fully accurate.

Then it should be no problem at all for you to post an officially-sanctioned LDS depiction of Joseph Smith using a seer stone in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon. Let's see it.

The church chose one of the methods to depict, and I can't change their minds. It doesn't make it untrue or false in any way.

[_Runtu]

Radex, every source you've cited has been secondary, as in not a primary, eyewitness source. As far as I know, the only eyewitness testimony speaks of the stone in the hat, though I could be wrong. Can you find any eyewitness account that describes a method other than the stone in the hat?