Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

[_moksha]

Also, don't it's better for the community to overthrow him together than for me to do it through a "scandal" that would reduce the credibility of all postMos just like his "faith reconstruction" podcast did?

The community would need to know the facts. It is fun to have revolutions, but shouldn't we at least know why it is we are revolting?

To that end, I wonder if it might be beneficial for you to submit your findings in an essay format to the peer review committee at Mormon Interpreter for possible inclusion as the featured article in an upcoming issue.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69038-open-stories-foundation-dehlin-money-and-compensation/?page=13

[_lostindc]

Forgot to mention, I think that John can go do whatever he is that he does as long as he isn't harming people (not that my thoughts matter). Since his excommunication he is a bit more transparent. No longer claiming to want to be a member, going through repentance, and setting up a notable excommunication. I mean, it is kind of funny he pulled it off. Not bad, def gave the church a kick in the balls.

[_lostindc]

Also, don't it's better for the community to overthrow him together than for me to do it through a "scandal" that would reduce the credibility of all postMos just like his "faith reconstruction" podcast did?

The community would need to know the facts. It is fun to have revolutions, but shouldn't we at least know why it is we are revolting?

To that end, I wonder if it might be beneficial for you to submit your findings in an essay format to the peer review committee at Mormon Interpreter for possible inclusion as the featured article in an upcoming issue.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69038-open-stories-foundation-dehlin-money-and-compensation/?page=13

Haha, this is wet dream for the interpreter. Those peeps are feeling pretty validated right now (right or wrong, they look for pretty much any form of validation).

[_Lemmie]

I think the falling out between Calm and Scott Lloyd continues.

On the MD&D counterpart to this thread on which Calm/Nemesis/MOD has a death grip, Lloyd made a comment likening JD to someone in Lehi's dream dropping dead from blasphemy or something,. After a couple of back and forth comments he made this response:

I don't think it has ever been stated that such a thing happens routinely.

And got this added onto his post in red:

MOD: This is turning into a derail.

Ouch. Calm is SERIOUS about this!

[_Kishkumen]

There is this vague miasma about Dehlin getting "paid," and/or about how he maybe should have paid other people, but I seem to be missing the part that explains how/why this is a legitimate problem. Is it that he promised to pay some people and then didn't?

Apparently JD pulls a salary of around 90k+ while his guests are paid by the download. I heard that all guests have that deal but the men are downloaded more than the women, or some such, so K. Money is upset. The system was not set up to be unequal, but the outcome was unequal.

That's the latest bit I heard, anyway.

[_Doctor Scratch]

There is this vague miasma about Dehlin getting "paid," and/or about how he maybe should have paid other people, but I seem to be missing the part that explains how/why this is a legitimate problem. Is it that he promised to pay some people and then didn't?

Apparently JD pulls a salary of around 90k+ while his guests are paid by the download. I heard that all guests have that deal but the men are downloaded more than the women, or some such, so K. Money is upset. The system was not set up to be unequal, but the outcome was unequal.

That's the latest bit I heard, anyway.

A clear and concise response, Reverend, though I am still left wondering what that has to do with Rosebud....

[_Doctor Scratch]

I think the falling out between Calm and Scott Lloyd continues.

On the MD&D counterpart to this thread on which Calm/Nemesis/MOD has a death grip, Lloyd made a comment likening JD to someone in Lehi's dream dropping dead from blasphemy or something,. After a couple of back and forth comments he made this response:

I don't think it has ever been stated that such a thing happens routinely.

And got this added onto his post in red:

MOD: This is turning into a derail.

Ouch. Calm is SERIOUS about this!

Juliann, Calm[oriah], and a number of other folks are practically drooling over this. Juliann, it seems, views Dehlin is a serial harasser. Those two--Juliann and Calm--have always been in a rather weird spot, in terms of their roles as Mopologists. I can remember a thread from quite a while ago--it must have been close to ten years ago--where they were both openly fantasizing about the idea of having a female-only sacrament ceremony. Some of the more hard-hatted men on the forum took them to task and essentially accused them of entertaining "apostate" ideas, and it was very strange--sad, in a way--to watch Calm[oriah] flip-flop, practically on a dime. They went from what was a rather admirable, sisterly conversation about gender equity in the LDS Church to something more akin to a slavish groveling.

They are caught in a rather odd situation, where they are both resentful of the patriarchy and yet they are operating in a system where many of the patriarchy's worst features are exacerbated--plus, as Mopologists, they are basically stuck having to defend some of the more noxious patriarchal commentary (no "speaking ill" of the Lord's anointed, right?). But you can see how frustrated and angry this has made them in threads like this. I mean, I can recall reading threads where Juliann spoke of having an abusive ex-husband and how she had to jump through a million bureaucratic hoops in order to cancel her temple sealing to the guy. Why stay in a system that is so riddled with frustrations like that? But they do. John Dehlin, the apostate, thus becomes a useful and convenient scapegoat for them. They can't rail away at the Brethren for talking about "licked cupcakes" and "walking pornography," but Dehlin, regardless of what he says, is going to be fair game.

[_Rosebud]

I don't know if, at this point, I'm the only person with knowledge about this ordeal, including finances, that hasn't signed a non-disclosure, but that's at least a possibility.

I need to focus on higher priorities tonight, but will try to make it back soon to describe the way John speaks about the organization's money, who deserves to get how much and why. Some of his reasoning hits the public, but with a different nuance than you see behind closed doors.

Money is right to be upset. She's spot on.

It sounds to me like there was a board transition not too long ago when Dan and Natasha left (they'd been there since the fall of 2012). It may be at that point that the non-disclosures were requested before people were given access to the documents/information. available behind closed doors. Money didn't want to sign and decided to speak about what she saw before she signed. I don't know how much she knows, but she seems perceptive. She describes what I saw.

Anyway, have to run.

And for whomever brought up libel before, it's not libel if it's true or my opinion. I had these discussions with my attorney before I started posting here. I have no non-disclosure. I am not afraid of John. I am free to speak for myself as much as I please. I'm not worried about John suing me or, if he tried, beating me in court. I'm pretty dang sure I'd win. You never know, I suppose, but that man is all over the Internet.

[_Kishkumen]

One thing hint I have learned from watching the JD odyssey is just how toxic the legacy of Joseph Smith is. Everything related to it has some taint, a strange mix of narcissism, throwing around one's weight, backbiting, infidelity (real or fantasized), gender inequality... not all at the same level or in the same arrangement every time, but there in some identifiable odor all the same. It gives a person pause.

As Water Dog said above, this is all very human. I agree; nothing here is inconceivable as a human frailty. That said, there are recognizable themes, familiar strains of Joe.

[_candygal]

One thing hint I have learned from watching the JD odyssey is just how toxic the legacy of Joseph Smith is. Everything related to it has some taint, a strange mix of narcissism, throwing around one's weight, backbiting, infidelity (real or fantasized), gender inequality... not all at the same level or in the same arrangement every time, but there in some identifiable odor all the same. It gives a person pause.

As Water Dog said above, this is all very human. I agree; nothing here is inconceivable as a human frailty. That said, there are recognizable themes, familiar strains of Joe.

This. It all comes back to one man..and imaginative and cunning character..who brought generations of good people down to a level that brings lies..pain..and deceit.