“The worst religious text I have ever read.”

[I Have Questions]

That's kind of a non answer. Your last few posts have been beating around the bush.

Regards,
MG

I’m trying to redirect you away from black and white thinking, and to get you to reexamine your pre existing biases.

Unlike Joseph Smith, we don’t have an angel appearing to us to tell us which church is true. We have to use our brains.

L Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith have a lot in common. Just because one of them integrated Christianity into their religion doesn’t absolve them.

Recently MG directed us to James Tour. James has had a personal visit from Jesus Christ Himself, and He didn’t point James in the direction of the SLC LDS Church, which I think is a powerful witness against that organisation. I’m grateful that MG 2.0 drew our attention to such a perfect example of Jesus not supporting the SLC LDS Church.

[Moksha]

You asked if I put Joseph first or God/Jesus Christ. The answer is, of course, Jesus Christ. That's why I don't give Scientology ANY credence. That's why I DO pay special attention/notice to the claims of Joseph Smith and the restoration.

Regards,
MG

Do you place the Community of Christ anywhere on your scale?

Did failure to rid yourself of Body Thetans with an E-Meter make you feel like you voted for Nikki Haley?

[MG 2.0]

You asked if I put Joseph first or God/Jesus Christ. The answer is, of course, Jesus Christ. That's why I don't give Scientology ANY credence. That's why I DO pay special attention/notice to the claims of Joseph Smith and the restoration.

Regards,
MG

Do you place the Community of Christ anywhere on your scale?

Sure. They are a schism/break off movement from the restoration.

Cute.

No, what happened in my previous response was that the 'hoped for' part of my brain took control when I responded.

Thetans? I hope not!

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

You asked if I put Joseph first or God/Jesus Christ. The answer is, of course, Jesus Christ. That's why I don't give Scientology ANY credence. That's why I DO pay special attention/notice to the claims of Joseph Smith and the restoration.

Regards,
MG

Do you place the Community of Christ anywhere on your scale?

Did failure to rid yourself of Body Thetans with an E-Meter make you feel like you voted for Nikki Haley?

I knew a scientology auditor once. She didn't tell me about body thetans, but after looking them up, I think I get why. Of course, I don't share equally bizarre Mormon ideas with everyone I meet, either.

[malkie]

Do you place the Community of Christ anywhere on your scale?

Did failure to rid yourself of Body Thetans with an E-Meter make you feel like you voted for Nikki Haley?

I knew a scientology auditor once. She didn't tell me about body thetans, but after looking them up, I think I get why. Of course, I don't share equally bizarre Mormon ideas with everyone I meet, either.

I don't share them with everyone I meet either - only carefully selected people.

[MG 2.0]

I’m trying to redirect you away from black and white thinking, and to get you to reexamine your pre existing biases.

Unlike Joseph Smith, we don’t have an angel appearing to us to tell us which church is true. We have to use our brains.

L Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith have a lot in common. Just because one of them integrated Christianity into their religion doesn’t absolve them.

Recently MG directed us to James Tour. James has had a personal visit from Jesus Christ Himself, and He didn’t point James in the direction of the SLC LDS Church, which I think is a powerful witness against that organisation. I’m grateful that MG 2.0 drew our attention to such a perfect example of Jesus not supporting the SLC LDS Church.

I don't think you are making a connection that even comes close to making sense. James Tour had his own experience with deity. The experience was centered around 'coming to Christ'. Why would one think that the Savior would tell everyone to join His church or be baptized? The track record shows that God has not told all believers to be baptized into the LDS Church.

Why might that be? That is the more interesting question, at least to me.

James Tour is doing a lot of good in the world in both his profession and in his profession/witness of Christ. Many have come to the Lord through his ministrations/efforts. It may well be that he is where he needs to be to do the most good. And if he's happy/secure in his own ministry, I would guess that God is cool with that.

Not everyone is planted in the same garden.

I can think of a number of reasons that Jesus may have not told Dr. Tour to join and/or be baptized into the CofJCofLDS at this time. But, in my opinion, none of those reasons have to do with 'the LDS Church is a cult!' as some here are wont to say.

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

Noel posted a cheerfully salient comment on DCP’s latest laughable blog entry defending [sic] the historicity of the Book of Mormon:

I confess that I simply don’t see what such folks claim to be seeing. I don’t believe that decisive proof exists of the historicity of the Book of Mormon narrative, but I do believe that there is good evidence that strongly suggests the factual authenticity of the narrative contained in the Book. In fact, in dramatic contrast to the claim that lethal indicators of the Book’s supposedly fictional character are mounting rapidly and disastrously, I actually think that the Book of Mormon is in a stronger position now, as regards its historicity, than at any prior time since its appearance in the late 1820s and its first publication in English in 1830.

DCP doesn’t elaborate on why he thinks this is the case, he just asserts it. What evidence, Dan? I suppose we will have to wait 40 years for his book to elucidate his argument.

Noel’s comment:

C S Lewis
“CS Lewis” wrote:
From all my lame defeats and oh! much more
From all the victories that I seemed to score;
From cleverness shot forth on Thy behalf
At which, while angels weep, the audience laugh;
From all my proofs of Thy divinity,
Thou, who wouldst give no sign, deliver me.

Thoughts are but coins. Let me not trust, instead
Of Thee, their thin-worn image of Thy head.
From all my thoughts, even from my thoughts of Thee,
O thou fair Silence, fall, and set me free.
Lord of the narrow gate and the needle’s eye,
Take from me all my trumpery lest I die.

This debate seems to have turned Lewis away from apologetics to children's literature. Perhaps because of his debate with Elizabeth Anscombe. C S Lewis :The Boy who Chronicled Narnia:A biography - Michael White p. 173-174. Perhaps this is why John Gee and Kerry muhlestein seem to be discussing other biblical areas other than the Book of Abraham. I wonder if young Smoot will after he completes his PHd will do the same.
" Lewis was crushed by this defeat Perhaps the fall was all the more painful because he had been so use to using the Socratic Club as a forum for his inflated ego.... The most aspect of this reverse was the fact that he had been forced to realize that his philosophical understanding was outmoded...... After February 1948 Lewis never wrote another word of religious commentary "

[malkie]

I think it's worth noting, in passing, that CS Lewis also wrote a Sci-fi trilogy, described nicely on its wikipedia page: The Space Trilogy

Like much sci-fi, and much of Lewis' works, The Space Trilogy is intended to provoke thought about moral issues, and the dangers of science/technology in the wrong hands.

[MG 2.0]

I think it's worth noting, in passing, that CS Lewis also wrote a Sci-fi trilogy, described nicely on its wikipedia page: The Space Trilogy

Like much sci-fi, and much of Lewis' works, The Space Trilogy is intended to provoke thought about moral issues, and the dangers of science/technology in the wrong hands.

So did Orson Scott Card. Patterned after Book of Mormon chronology and events.

Lots of fiction out there with a 'morality play' going on in between the lines.

Of course, as has been shown by many folks now, the Book of Mormon is in a different class...a class of its own.

I would suggest that folks go back to Sidney B. Sperry
and Truman S. Madsen to reintroduce yourselves to why this is so.

Two names that may be unfamiliar to younger folks here. Pioneers in Book of Mormon studies.

It's frustrating to see how quickly and easily some folks toss off the Book of Mormon or simply compare it to Lord of the Rings etc., without REALLY spending time with it as a lifelong pursuit...or at least more than a quick and easy purusal, Mark Twain style.

Gosh, we even have one of the 'bright lights' here on this board admitting to the fact that he really never spent much time with the Book of Mormon.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

I think it's worth noting, in passing, that CS Lewis also wrote a Sci-fi trilogy, described nicely on its wikipedia page: The Space Trilogy

Like much sci-fi, and much of Lewis' works, The Space Trilogy is intended to provoke thought about moral issues, and the dangers of science/technology in the wrong hands.

Ah, that brings back memories! I found it interesting that he fully stopped writing about religion after "he had been forced to realize that his philosophical understanding was outmoded.."

On the other hand, his fantasy and sci fi fiction have stood the test of time! I put the Screwtape Letters in that category.