TAL BACHMAN RESPONDS TO PRESIDENT KEYES

[_Rollo Tomasi]

I lament - not least because I helped create the situation - that for me now to defend myself can only be at Randy's cost, and I just don't see what the point is of doing that. BCSpace and these other Mormon guys on FAIR jumping up and down for more drama - which, again, will only come at Randy's cost - can go screw themselves for all I care. Maybe once Randy's not the SP anymore and things have died down things will be different, I don't know.

I've obviously said way too much already, so...for now, I think I should just leave things there.

I applaud your decision.

[_neworder]

I have no problem believing what Tal Bachman has wrote because I got a little taste of my Bishop being in the same boat when I told him I was leaving the church 2.5 years ago. My wife and I walked in and I told him that we studied a lot of Early Church History and we no longer believed that the "Church is True". He was pretty shocked since I was fully active and have been part of Young Mens for 3 years and he was only called as Bishop for about 1 month. I tried to talk to him about some of the issues but he told me that we really didn't have to discuss it. I got the feeling that he already knew about the issues and he did not want to try and defend that church one bit. He then said "I believe its true but even if it isn't and there is nothing after this life, it doesn't really hurt and it has done a lot of good". He then paused for a little bit and I think he was surprised with what he just said and then said "But I do believe its true". I found it very interesting that he never used the words "know" like most TBMs do. It was always "believe".

On the way home my wife and I talked about how surprising it was that he did not want to talk about any of the issues and that he hinted that there might be be nothing after this life. His comment really threw me off because I was still 100% a theist and was thinking that it does matter big time since your eternal salvation depends on getting your beliefs inline with God.

When LDS leaders are forced to take a side and state publicly what they "believe in", of course they are going to say the Church is 100% what it claims to be.

I remember reading Tal's post about his SP and was a little shocked that he would be so Candid about what his SP told him and that he was going to put his SP in a difficult position if somebody talked to him about it. Seems like the folks over at MAD put his feet to the fire and forced him publicly to take a side.

[_bcspace]

I've obviously said way too much already, so...for now, I think I should just leave things there.

Hey Tal...

You made the honorable choice.

Most dishonorable are the claims that he refuses to back up such as being able to "out" Keyes if he wanted to.

[_antishock8]

I think cultural Mormonism is a viable way of life for many people. My ex-wife told me she didn't believe in it, and has never read the Book of Mormon all the way through. However, after a stint in the real world she got involved in the Mormon community again, married a Mormon divorcee, and loves her Mormon housewife life. She's surrounded by friends, an extended family, and has a community that makes her happy. So, it's hard to fault her for her choice.

She chooses that life, I choose a life that deals with reality in a different way. Both have their positive aspects, and both have their drawbacks. Ultimately, I have to follow my conscience, and can't pretend to believe in a clear fraud and I won't expose my children to that. I think it's morally bankrupt to do so.

[_the road to hana]

I have to follow my conscience, and can't pretend to believe in a clear fraud and I won't expose my children to that. I think it's morally bankrupt to do so.

That's the bottom line for many of us.

p.s. Hooters has better Buffalo Chicken sandwiches.

[_Chap]

I've obviously said way too much already, so...for now, I think I should just leave things there.

Hey Tal...

You made the honorable choice.

Most dishonorable are the claims that he refuses to back up such as being able to "out" Keyes if he wanted to.

So you think that he ought here and now to state everything he knows that might discredit Keyes in the eyes of his fellow LDS? Is that what he ought to do?

[_mbeesley]

By the way, I don't know what Alex is talking about on this thread; my little brother left the church at 15, and he's never commented publicly on me leaving the church that I know of.

Take a look at the eighth comment in the thread that Alex posted a link to.

[_William Schryver]

TB:

With sincerity and self-sacrifice just dripping from each word, you wrote:

I lament - not least because I helped create the situation - that for me now to defend myself can only be at Randy's cost, and I just don't see what the point is of doing that.

To which your devoted acolytes respond:

You made the honorable choice.

… kudos to you!

I applaud your decision.

Nothing left now but the group hug.

[_Dr. Shades]

One of the more amazing things about this whole Bachman/Keyes episode is this:

The critics are the ones applauding Tal for protecting Stake President Keyes by holding his tongue, whereas the apologists are the ones who are more than willing to throw one of their own under a bus by demanding that Tal keep going.

[_William Schryver]

One of the more amazing things about this whole Bachman/Keyes episode is this:

The critics are the ones applauding Tal for protecting Stake President Keyes by holding his tongue, whereas the apologists are the ones who are more than willing to throw one of their own under a bus by demanding that Tal keep going.

Stop it, Shades! You're killing me.

From my perspective, one of the more amazing things about this whole Bachman/Keyes episode is this:

The sycophants here in Shadyville and elsewhere actually believe that Tal is holding some kind of meaningful Trump card close to his vest, which, if he "lowered his standards" and chose to play, would be tantamount to destroying the reputation of President Keyes. And since many of the apologists are calling Tal's bluff and encouraging him to show his hand, Jason assures us it is because we are indifferent to the fate of poor Randy Keyes.

Well, from what I've seen of Randy Keyes, I think he seems more than a match for the bus. And, from what I've seen of Tal, I think he's an amateur propagandist who, if nothing else, knows how to play his audience here in the Shady Acres trailer park.