The Unreasonableness of Atheism

[_Moniker]

I drive about 5 miles over the speed limit most of the time, especially on the interstate

Why? What prevents you from becomming a hedonistic libertine (assuming you aren't one).

What is a hedonistic libertine?

What prevents me from becoming an immoral person? I just don't want to be one, I suppose. Easy peacy!

I answered your question, now answer mine. You don't believe in women?

I was spoofing "I don't believe in fairies" and where tinkerbell falls down dead... by the way...

[_Gadianton]

BC,

That's just kind of fruity. What does the "light of Christ" do? It's basically a black box that does what you want. Kind of like your underwear, if you want to believe it's magic you can, as you can also believe that a guy gets nailed to a board or hit by a car, don't matter, and his "light" is the reason for smoking to cause cancer or for people to act "good". So, great argument you got there bud.

Why would people act "good" absent your black box non-explanation? Well, if you're the techno geek that you pretend to be, you should know something about basic game theory, and that the kind of "hedonism" (I doubt you even know what the word means outside what you've heard in general conference talks) you think people should subscribe to without your black box simply wouldn't work very well for most people to achieve their best outcomes.

I know you deprived Mormon types think that if you could only have a "free day" away from the call of the light of a 2,000 year old corpse that you'd go out and rape every skirt in sight, or maybe even become heroin addicts and prostitute yourselves for gay sex nonstop until death so, good thing the Joe Smith plaigerized the Bible because now you have a good reason not to do that stuff! Right BC? That's what you're telling me? If you didn't have the light of Christ, you'd be crawling around the seediest bars looking for the smelliest, drunkest, most desperate gay men to have non-stop gay relations with. All night, non-stop, Brokeback Mountain ain't seen nothin' hardcore. But thanks to the mysterious light of "Christ', you resist that and don't do it?

[_Moniker]

The light of Christ needs to work on humor impairment.

[_bcspace]

Why would people act "good" absent your black box non-explanation? Well, if you're the techno geek that you pretend to be, you should know something about basic game theory, and that the kind of "hedonism" (I doubt you even know what the word means outside what you've heard in general conference talks) you think people should subscribe to without your black box simply wouldn't work very well for most people to achieve their best outcomes.

So you believe there IS something that prevents us from becomming HL's? by the way, I know quite a bit about game theory, but are you sure you want to hang your hat on the decisions of others? Are HL's just victims?

The light of Christ needs to work on humor impairment.

Not it's job... lol

[_Moniker]

I was laying in bed thinking about this thread (yah, I know, a wee bit pathetic) and it dawned on me that I attempted to get a discussion going in celestial a while back on ethics of belief. Gad showed up, EAllusion showed up, marg showed up, and dart never made it!

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... php?t=5289

Why doesn't someone start an interesting thread in Celestial? I won't interrupt, I promise!

Gad? EAllusion? Tarski? Anyone?

[_Chap]

... from the atheist pov, there is no reason not to be a hedonistic libertine.

Naah. Solving a hard problem in my work, being supportive to colleagues and subordinates, helping my kids with their homework, cooking dinner, talking to my wife, reading a good book, looking at the starry sky ... that's much more satisfying than anything else I have ever tried on a regular basis (and I have tried a few things, believe me).

I suspect that the only people who imagine non-stop debauchery to be fun for normal people are people who have never actually debauched much. Don't pay too much attention to your imagination - it is a poor guide to real life.

[_Danna]

I drive about 5 miles over the speed limit most of the time, especially on the interstate

Why? What prevents you from becomming a hedonistic libertine (assuming you aren't one).

Personally, I evolved as a social animal. Thus I find pleasure in the social approval that comes from socially acceptable behavior. I have an innate desire to aid those I affiliate with (who are more likely to share my genes than strangers). My ability to understand the pain of others prevents me from desiring to cause pain, and even causes me to wince when others are hurt.

I have evolved a sense of justice and fairness that demands that I expect all around me to play fair, and I desire to punish those who do not, even though I am not directly hurt myself. I know that if I hurt someone, others who have no direct interest will attempt to punish me - we evolved a sense of retribution. Like everyone, I will push the boundaries now and then. But overall, being physically and mentally healthy, I am a 'moral' animal.

Must say I am glad to have outgrown the phase where I allowed my natural inclinations to be twisted for the gain of others - I used to believe that retribution could be exacted from a substitute, rather than the offender. Now I think that is a grave miscarriage of justice and a sure sign of an immoral system.

[_beastie]

BC,

Pretend, for just a moment, that there is no god after all. Religions still exist, of course.

Now, if there is no god, what was the origination of the moral codes that became enshrined in religion?

The answer is obvious: these moral codes originated from human beings.

This is why atheists, as a group, are just as moral as believers (contrary to the bigoted ideas of some). Human beings carry within them the instinct towards certain behaviors. How could this be so, absent a god? Evolution provides the obvious answer: our human ancestors who were inclined to certain behaviors reproduced and survived at a higher rate than those who were not, hence, ensuring the continuation of these certain behaviors.

This not only explains our moral instincts, but explains why, despite claims to the contrary, human beings normally demonstrate a moral system called Tit for Tat, combined with reciprocal altruism. In fact, game theory has, indeed, demonstrated that a group of humans who used this moral system would survive at a better rate than humans using other moral systems.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/tittat/story.htm

You really should read the link. It's fascinating.

[_Mad Viking]

Interesting. He gives variant messages and yet THEY are wrong. Why would you blame them, for confusion he is causing?

I meant the person is wrong, not God.

You were clear the first time. Again, why are you blaming the person for the confusion that god is creating?

[_Gadianton]

BC,

Since you probably like Sci-Fi, read the short story "Anarchy Park" by Larry Niven. If that doesn't answer your question, nothing will. Since you're just trolling though, well, back to ignoring you posts. You're getting some good reactions so I guess you should get some credit for that. Sill have a ways to go though before you reach the level of Master Wade. He's about the only apologist that can suck me in no matter how many times I tell myself I'm going to ignore him.