Mormonism -> Atheism, Why?

[_Ray A]

None... the Bible is of God.

Does that include the racy Song of Solomon, and the genocide of the Amalekites in Sam.1:15, where "God" orders the killing of women and children?

[_Jersey Girl]

If you don't agree so what? ...I made a decision that only I live with.

Well how about accepting that Jason has made a decision that only he has to live with?

You're trying to make him out to be some kind of hypocrite when your own views aren't exactly seamless.

Dang! You beat me to it!

What Ray said, thews.

[_Ray A]

Ray A is that really you?

How did you get so damn sexy anyway?

The joke is on thews - if only he knew what I looked like in real life. LOL. A photo of Danny de Vito might have done more justice.

[_Yoda]

If you don't agree so what? ...I made a decision that only I live with.

Well how about accepting that Jason has made a decision that only he has to live with?

You're trying to make him out to be some kind of hypocrite when your own views aren't exactly seamless.

I agree, Ray.

Thews, how does Jason, or myself, for that matter, have any less right to our belief than you do to yours?

Jason was correct in stating that there are all types of Christianity. There is more than one sect. They all have tenets of doctrine which are different.

There is, however, one constant. Whether one is a Catholic Christian, a Baptist Christian, a Lutheran Christian, or a Latter-Day Saint Christian, we all worship Jesus Christ.

I certainly have no problem with you stating that you think that the Mormon belief is wrong...or that Joseph Smith is a con man. But when you blanketly state that all Mormons are not Christian, and are not entitled to refer to themselves as Christian, it is insulting. You seem to think that Mormons refer to themselves as Christian out of some sense of embarrassment...so as not to be identified as Mormons. That is simply incorrect. One can sincerely identify themselves as both a Mormon and a Christian at the same time. Mormons worship Jesus Christ. As worshipers of Christ, Mormons ARE Christian. Are the tenets of their Church doctrine incorrect? Perhaps....but that doesn't make their worship of Christ any less sincere.

[_thews]

I agree, Ray.

yada yada yada

Thews, how does Jason, or myself, for that matter, have any less right to our belief than you do to yours?

My opinion must threaten you Liz. Why can't I have my opinion and Jason have his? Just because we differ doesn't mean the universe is going to topple.

Jason was correct in stating that there are all types of Christianity. There is more than one sect. They all have tenets of doctrine which are different.

Here's the part where I disagree with you, you agree with Jason, and Ray come rushing to your side to offer support. Mormonism is, in my opinion, from a false prophet of God. Just because I'm not one who believes Joseph Smith = Christianity doesn't mean you can't believe that... go ahead, but I don't. If I believed the little leprechaun on the box of Lucky Charms was a God and twisted the Bible and asked you to buy into this "sect" of Christianity it would be the same thing. Joseph Smith was a bad person and false prophet of God and that’s my opinion. We disagree… call yourself what you wish, but if you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and you believe in Mormon doctrine you are in fact a Mormon by definition. Attempting to be two things at the same time is my point regarding cognitive dissonance.

There is, however, one constant. Whether one is a Catholic Christian, a Baptist Christian, a Lutheran Christian, or a Latter-Day Saint Christian, we all worship Jesus Christ.

Not in my opinion. The Jesus Christ in all other Christian faiths has nothing to do with Joseph Smith's version of Jesus Christ. Only Mormons believe in Joseph Smith's "restored" version of the Bible and in Mormon doctrine. Regardless of what you attempt to define as a "Christian," the one constant is that Mormons are the only ones who belive in Mormon doctrine. Again, it would be the same to have Christians claim to be Jews because they accept the old testament. A Jew is not a Christian, but a Jew, and that's based on doctrine. A Christian rejects Mormon doctrine, and a Mormon accepts Mormon doctrine. Juest because you want Christianity to embrace Joseph Smith as a prophet of God doesn't make it so... we will continue to disagree, and all the highfives in the world isn't goign to change that. Call yourself what you wish, but if you believe in the Mormon doctrine of joseph Smith you are in fact a Mormon by definition.

I certainly have no problem with you stating that you think that the Mormon belief is wrong...or that Joseph Smith is a con man. But when you blanketly state that all Mormons are not Christian, and are not entitled to refer to themselves as Christian, it is insulting. You seem to think that Mormons refer to themselves as Christian out of some sense of embarrassment...so as not to be identified as Mormons. That is simply incorrect. One can sincerely identify themselves as both a Mormon and a Christian at the same time. Mormons worship Jesus Christ. As worshipers of Christ, Mormons ARE Christian. Are the tenets of their Church doctrine incorrect? Perhaps....but that doesn't make their worship of Christ any less sincere.

You are a Mormon Liz... OK. if you want to be soemthing else I urge you to be it, but if you believe in the doctrine of joseph Smith you are a Mormon, regardless of what else you want to be known as.

[_Ray A]

Here's the part where I disagree with you, you agree with Jason, and Ray come rushing to your side to offer support. Mormonism is, in my opinion, from a false prophet of God.

There are many posters here who would agree with your opinion, but I think I can speak for others who don't try to badger or bully them into making choices based on your standard of "false/true" prophet, and the simple dichotomies you champion. Jesus can be made out to be a divider of people and a family-wrecker, IF you choose the right verses in the Gospels. Joseph Smith had some good ideas, and some pathetically bad and misguided ones. Maybe those who choose to remain Mormons do so for reasons beyond your comprehension.

[_beastie]

I think what you fail to realize is that opinion doesn't have to agree with yours to be valid. :highfives: don't add anything to a discussion.

You aren't having a discussion. You're talking to yourself. I have yet to see evidence that you listen to anyone else.

[_thews]

There are many posters here who would agree with your opinion, but I think I can speak for others who don't try to badger or bully them into making choices based on your standard of "false/true" prophet, and the simple dichotomies you champion. Jesus can be made out to be a divider of people and a family-wrecker, IF you choose the right verses in the Gospels. Joseph Smith had some good ideas, and some pathetically bad and misguided ones. Maybe those who choose to remain Mormons do so for reasons beyond your comprehension.

What I don't get is the sentiment that I'm denying someone the right to be "Christian" with what I believe. Lost in this is what a "Mormon" is... if one wants to be known as a Christian, but also believe in Mormon doctrine, it defines cognitive dissonance as that what it is... two conflicting things at the same time. Back to the Lucky Charm leprechaun analogy, if I were to seriously claim the Lucky Charm Leprechaun spoke to me and gave me new doctrine to "restore" what the Bible left out, then also claim it was another Christian sect, you'd agree with me that it was in fact not Christian, but LuckCharmian with the story of the Limitards and the Troglidites. As far fetched as that may seem, it's the exact same thing as Joseph Smith as his doctrine. I don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, just like you wouldn't believe in the Lucky Charm leprechaun being a prophet of God. Do you see my point? The focus of this argument is what defines a "Mormon" and not what defines a "Christian." A “Mormon” accepts Joseph Smith and the doctrine of Joseph Smith… that’s what a “Mormon” is.

[_thews]

I think what you fail to realize is that opinion doesn't have to agree with yours to be valid. :highfives: don't add anything to a discussion.

You aren't having a discussion. You're talking to yourself. I have yet to see evidence that you listen to anyone else.

Well join in with harmony and Jersey girl and bounce off arguments that all make sense to you and you agree with, constantly quoting each other as a team... it's a very Mormon mindset do so, as your opinion is one of the "correct" ones and not based on just what you believe. To be honest with you, the highfives from opposing opinions and your little jabs only define you as someone who needs support to support your opinion, and what your opinion seems to entail is a mixed bag O'definition of atheist and agnostic so it hardly surprises me.

[_beastie]

Well join in with harmony and Jersey girl and bounce off arguments that all make sense to you and you agree with, constantly quoting each other as a team... it's a very Mormon mindset do so, as your opinion is one of the "correct" ones and not based on just what you believe. To be honest with you, the highfives from opposing opinions and your little jabs only define you as someone who needs support to support your opinion, and what your opinion seems to entail is a mixed bag O'definition of atheist and agnostic so it hardly surprises me.

Mixed bag o'definition. LOL.

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1] Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief. As such, the term agnostic does not necessarily signal a particular view about religion or God, as some agnostics also identify as theists or atheists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

So far, I've seen you be dogmatically wedded to your opinion even when confronted with good evidence to the contrary. You then either ignore the presented evidence or throw out insults. So far, you've presented no evidence that you actually hear the other party, period.

In fact, your posting style has been so ridiculous and extreme I suspect you're a sock puppet trying to liven the place up.