OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years now!

[_why me]

No, Why Me, it is not a mistake to say that a lesson manual supersedes what an apostle says in General Conference. It is the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve that decide what lesson manuals say, not vice-versa.

I can only go by what is being taught to the members, especially the young. And this manual makes it clear that perfection is impossible in this life but with repentance, it is something that is worth striving for even though it is impossible. Personally, I am far from being perfect. I don't even try to be perfect. And the church is world wide fulled with different cultures and men and women are interpreting their own culture when it comes to what they read in the manuals etc or read the church magazines.

It is not one size fits all. And most members know this when it comes to home advice, work advice or life on general terms when it comes to things that don't pretain to commandments.

[_why me]

Let's play a fun game called, "Find an assertion that self-proclaimed defender of the faith Why Me makes about the LDS Church that even remotely resembles what the Church teaches."

It will be difficult!

If I go by everything that was said in church for the last 80 years about how to do life, I would be a nutcase. Also, not everyone goes to the computer and read quotes here and there without context and do it. Like I said, they give advice in how to do life and we already know through the I am a Mormon series that people are cherry picking certain things that may apply to them at that moment and that was my point. It has always been like this. Also, no one has time to read all church magazines, manuals etc. But the internet can be wonderful to see what many leaders are saying throughout the years.

[_Darth J]

No, Why Me, it is not a mistake to say that a lesson manual supersedes what an apostle says in General Conference. It is the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve that decide what lesson manuals say, not vice-versa.

I can only go by what is being taught to the members, especially the young.

Yeah, because talks given by an apostle in General Conference and then printed in the Ensign and quoted in lesson manuals aren't being taught to the members or anything like that.

And Preparing for Exaltation is certainly one of the more popular Primary classes!

And this manual makes it clear that perfection is impossible in this life but with repentance, it is something that is worth striving for even though it is impossible.

The manual instructs the teacher to read Russell M. Nelson's talk to prepare for teaching this lesson. In that talk, Nelson says we can achieve perfect obedience to the commandments in mortal life. "Mortal perfection can be achieved as we try to perform every duty, keep every law, and strive to be as perfect in our sphere as our Heavenly Father is in his."

So if the lesson manual contradicts an apostle, you should go with the lesson manual, because you sustained the lesson manual as a prophet, seer, and revelator. Right?

Personally, I am far from being perfect. I don't even try to be perfect.

Then why are you bothering to cite this lesson manual? The lesson states that its purpose is "To help class members understand that perfection is not an instant event but a goal we must strive for throughout our lives." And it tells the teacher to "Help class members understand that they will someday reach perfection if they strive for it as best they can from day to day."

But then I suppose the foregoing question overlooks the big picture of, "Whom do you think you are fooling by pretending to be a believing Mormon in any recognizable sense?"

And the church is world wide fulled with different cultures and men and women are interpreting their own culture when it comes to what they read in the manuals etc or read the church magazines.

It is not one size fits all. And most members know this when it comes to home advice, work advice or life on general terms when it comes to things that don't pretain to commandments.

Too bad the Church is so U.S.-centric, then.

[_Yoda]

Let's play a fun game called, "Find an assertion that self-proclaimed defender of the faith Why Me makes about the LDS Church that even remotely resembles what the Church teaches."

It will be difficult!

If I go by everything that was said in church for the last 80 years about how to do life, I would be a nutcase. Also, not everyone goes to the computer and read quotes here and there without context and do it. Like I said, they give advice in how to do life and we already know through the I am a Mormon series that people are cherry picking certain things that may apply to them at that moment and that was my point. It has always been like this. Also, no one has time to read all church magazines, manuals etc. But the internet can be wonderful to see what many leaders are saying throughout the years.

So it is OK for YOU to pick and choose, but you judge me, Just Me, Runtu, and others for doing the same. Interesting.

[_mfbukowski]

Oh you want more rules then right? More manuals? More instructions? I suspect you wouldn't follow them anyway.

What a crappy thing to say.

I'm still trying to figure out how the 3 or 4 TBMs you mentioned fit into the categories you said they belonged to. And at least what I say publicly fits with what I say privately.

[_Darth J]

Let's play a fun game called, "Find an assertion that self-proclaimed defender of the faith Why Me makes about the LDS Church that even remotely resembles what the Church teaches."

It will be difficult!

If I go by everything that was said in church for the last 80 years about how to do life, I would be a nutcase.

That's right, ladies and gentlemen! It has only taken Why Me 9 pages to figure out

WHAT THE DAMN POINT OF THIS THREAD IS!!!!

Also, not everyone goes to the computer and read quotes here and there without context and do it.

Luckily, they have the Correlation Committee to read quotes here and there without context for them.

Funny, though, how your treasured lesson manual specifically tells teachers to go read that talk in preparing for class.

Like I said, they give advice in how to do life and we already know through the I am a Mormon series that people are cherry picking certain things that may apply to them at that moment and that was my point. It has always been like this. Also, no one has time to read all church magazines, manuals etc. But the internet can be wonderful to see what many leaders are saying throughout the years.

2 Nephi 28

7 Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us.

8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.

[_mfbukowski]

The real problem is that the LDS church tells you all this shiz you need to do but they fail to address HOW to do it. How to function. How to overcome real life issues.

I said:

Oh you want more rules then right? More manuals? More instructions? I suspect you wouldn't follow them anyway.

Yes, the logical inference from her statement that the LDS Church imposes too many requirements and unrealistic expectations is that she wants more rules.

How pray tell, could the church address "HOW to do it, how to function, how to overcome real life issues" without further instruction??

Does she want to know HOW to "do it" or not?? What precisely am I missing pray tell?

[_Yoda]

However, I think that it is worth noting that the Mormon culture both encourages and rewards perfectionism. I think that, women, in particular, have a rough time with this, because we are constantly encouraged to be the care givers, to think of ourselves last, not complain, etc. Women have a nurturing instictive, anyway, so when you add the constant pressure of perfection, it is overwhelming. You feel that if your kids aren't dressed impeccably, sitting quietly in Sacrament Meeting, after eating a breakfast of homemade bread from wheat you ground yourself, you are somehow a failure! LOL

Of course, I am exaggerating a bit here, but it is funny because there is truth behind the exaggeration. All of us who have been in Relief Society have felt this at one point or another.

I actually don't see this. I see many women working outside the home and doing what they have to do so their family survives. However, I do think that when we look at children and when we look at youth, we can see that there is something wrong with how various societies are developing with the younger generation and so, in an ideal world, the advice that the church gives makes sense. However, in practicalities it is very difficult to do because of structural changes in society. And this is why we see the series I am a Mormon having working women with nice smiles on their faces. It is the new reality.

We also need to remember that GAs give advice on how to do life and we can pick and chose what advice best suits us at that moment. It is pretty near impossible to do all that the GAs are advising people to do. It is not a commandment to wash the dishes or vacuum the carpet. It is also not a commandment to be perfect in all things: bedmaking, clothes washing, shoe shining etc.

You don't see it because you are not a woman, and do not attend Relief Society. ;-)

I am not arguing the fact that many LDS women work. Most of my ward's Relief Society work outside the home. However, as one of those working Moms, I think that the culture puts even more pressure on us in a way. We are not only expected to excel in our outside jobs, but also be the perfect juggler...the kids must still excel in school, be spit shine clean, etc.

Again, I realize that the Church, itself, does not expect this. But it is very easy for us, in striving to do everything right, to take things to this level. And, the Church, as an organization, does reward those who do, at least project the image of perfection. Those folks are looked up to.

It is easy to forget that we have not walked in anyone else's shoes but our own.

Why Me, what frustrates me about you is that you tend to refuse to acknowledge that there are aspects of the Church, and of the Mormon culture, that you don't know everything about! By your own admission, you are a partially participating member. As such, you are not completely immersed in the Mormon culture and community the way others of us who are 100% active are. To claim that you understand that level of immersion is very disingenuous. I believe that this is why you have so much trouble communicating with folks here.

[_Darth J]

The real problem is that the LDS church tells you all this shiz you need to do but they fail to address HOW to do it. How to function. How to overcome real life issues.

I said:
Oh you want more rules then right? More manuals? More instructions? I suspect you wouldn't follow them anyway.

Yes, the logical inference from her statement that the LDS Church imposes too many requirements and unrealistic expectations is that she wants more rules.

How pray tell, could the church address "HOW to do it, how to function, how to overcome real life issues" without further instruction??

Does she want to know HOW to "do it" or not?? What precisely am I missing pray tell?

You are missing what she said in the OP, which puts her follow-up statement in context:

"Life is a lot more exhilarating and complicated without the church to tell me what to do."

She thinks the Church tells people what to do too much, and that problem is compounded by not even specifying how to do it.

[_mfbukowski]

The manual instructs the teacher to read Russell M. Nelson's talk to prepare for teaching this lesson. In that talk, Nelson says we can achieve perfect obedience to the commandments in mortal life.

No, it doesn't say that at all. I will use your quote and add emphasis to show you.

"Mortal perfection can be achieved as we try to perform every duty, keep every law, and strive to be as perfect in our sphere as our Heavenly Father is in his."

The point is, that MORTAL "perfection" - what is classified as "perfection" in this life, is our continuous STRIVING to do the best we possibly can.

No one expects full perfection in this life, except in perhaps simple areas, like the word of wisdom, or tithing etc.