Which way did they go Joe?

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_ludwigm
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Post by _ludwigm »

By that logic, Joseph knew. He's the one who wrote the Book of Mormon and created the legend surrounding it. He's the one who reported the first vision and then changed it multiple times. He's the one who conned the women into "marrying" him and then lied about it repeatedly.
If you think that Mark Hoffman is an apt comparison to Joseph, and think that the "logic" necessitates that Joseph knew he was perpetrating a fraud (a la Mark Hoffman), then so be it.

I have no intention of arguing beyond that many people who engage in magical occult practices such as money digging and divining actually believe they have abilities to do such and actually believe they are providing a real service by renting out their talents.
If Joseph knew it was a fraud, then yes, he and Hofmann have a lot in common. If, on the other hand, Joseph really thought he was channeling God, then that's a different deal.

Neither makes it real.

Unfortunately, we don't know - and can't know - what does one of our fellow-creature know or believe or think.
We know only their deeds and words. Most of the times these together are good enough to decide.

One more about the "magical occult practices":
What does trigger one to begin this type of practice? It doesn't happen in vacuum.
One doesn't awake morning with the discovery: "Heureka! I see the waters in the earth!" or "I see others future from the tarot cards!"
Instead, he/she sees the masses who want to be the victim of letdown and the few others who take advantage of this.

And it is better to be a few, above the others.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Doctor Steuss
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Post by _Doctor Steuss »

ludwigm wrote:Unfortunately, we don't know - and can't know - what does one of our fellow-creature know or believe or think.
We know only their deeds and words. Most of the times these together are good enough to decide.

One more about the "magical occult practices":
What does trigger one to begin this type of practice? It doesn't happen in vacuum.
One doesn't awake morning with the discovery: "Heureka! I see the waters in the earth!" or "I see others future from the tarot cards!"
Instead, he/she sees the masses who want to be the victim of letdown and the few others who take advantage of this.

And it is better to be a few, above the others.

Interesting. For some reason, when I created my first sigil I hadn't seen "the masses who want to be a victim of letdown."

Perhaps there's a deeper reason some dabble in the occult. Maybe, just maybe. Then again, perhaps your myopic view is correct.

If anyone needs me, I will be in the corner reading my copy of Sefer ha-Razim in hopes of exploiting someone.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
_ludwigm
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Post by _ludwigm »

Doctor Steuss wrote:Perhaps there's a deeper reason some dabble in the occult. Maybe, just maybe. Then again, perhaps your myopic view is correct.

Perhaps.

Doctor Steuss wrote:If anyone needs me, I will be in the corner reading my copy of Sefer ha-Razim in hopes of exploiting someone.

The Sefer ha-Razim may be obsolete today. Maybe the reading itself is more obsolete.
People use the internet.
For example www.calastrology.com, www.Active-Online-Spells.com.

Hehe.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

Doctor Steuss wrote:I disagree that those who "committed it" knew that it was a fraud. Some may have, but I tend to think many of those who engage in such activities (including those who search for water with a divining rod) actually do believe that they are performing a “working, real activity.”

Whether Joseph believed it was such is another matter; however, I don’t think it’s an accurate statement to claim that everyone who has performed such activities knew/knows it to be fraudulent.


True. Some people believe in their ability to find water with a rod, etc. In Joseph's case, I am increasingly inclined to believe that he knew he was faking it.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

ludwigm wrote:
Doctor Steuss wrote:Perhaps there's a deeper reason some dabble in the occult. Maybe, just maybe. Then again, perhaps your myopic view is correct.

Perhaps.

Doctor Steuss wrote:If anyone needs me, I will be in the corner reading my copy of Sefer ha-Razim in hopes of exploiting someone.

The Sefer ha-Razim may be obsolete today. Maybe the reading itself is more obsolete.
People use the internet.
For example www.calastrology.com, www.Active-Online-Spells.com.

Hehe.


Wow! Thanks Ludwig! Soon Steuss will be mine, all mine!!! Bwahahhahahaha!!!
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
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