William Schryver - The Vulgar Scatologist of LDS Apologetics

[_sethpayne]

If I have the time and inclination, I might create a sockpuppet that holds all the essential "metaphysical" positions of Sethpayne and see if I can gain the acceptance of Will and others. I really believe it's Sethpayne's MO and personality that gets him labeled as an apostate by the apologists.

I am really quite puzzled by the reaction my participation in the Church elucidates from some people like Droopy and William. However, I should say that only certain apologists view me as an apostate. I receive such incredible kindness from the likes of David Bokovoy, mbukowski, LoaP, Lamanite, mercyandgrace, alter idem, and so many others..... We have mutual respect for one another despite our differences in belief or opinion.

by the way, Trevor, do you think Seth would be considered an outright apostate by LoaP who apparently has sent drafts of his writings to Seth? If not, is Will or LoaP, both "literal believers" (which I think covers a lot of ground) better qualified to make a call on Seth's standing in the church?

While Blair and I certainly don't agree on metaphysics ... we have mutual respect for each others academic work. Blair originally contacted me about my work on ex-Mormon narratives and, as he quoted my work in his paper, he wanted to know my thoughts.

Blair is an open-minded and kind guy. The Church will benefit from his thoughtful, but faithful analysis of difficult issues.

[_ttribe]

Hi Trevor,

I think you have a pretty good grasp of where I am coming from. I am not a literal believer. My goal as a member of the Church is to build on commonalities I share with my fellow Mormons. I don't pretend to believe in things that I don't but I also don't get up in testimony meeting and advertise my heterodoxy either. Depending on the circumstances I will share my reasons for viewing things the way I do but the absolute last thing I would want to do is damage an individual's testimony of the Church. If that testimony works for them and makes for a happy life, then that testimony is good.

On the other hand, there have been occasions where people have come to me saying that they have serious concerns over X or Y etc... In those cases I will be more open about my views.

What William fails to grasp is that I have plenty of places to share my personal views of the LDS Church and its teachings. I have here, my blog, MADB etc... Sacrament meeting, Sunday School, and Priesthood are not venues for me to espouse my beliefs if those beliefs are at odds with the official teachings of the Church.

You see, I have respect for the LDS Church as an institution. The Church has the right and responsibility to teach members what the FP and Q12 feel should be taught. Who am I to tell the LDS Church what to believe or what to teach? It is not my place.

I go to Church because I love the community and I have more in common with my fellow Saints one might imagine.

Just the other day in Priesthood we were discussing the Book of Enos. Now, I personally don't' believe that Enos was a real person or that the events described took place in actual history. However, the story of Enos has great power and is illustrative of the benefits of honest prayer. So, when at Church and when interacting with my fellow ward members I focus on those things I do believe and not on the things I don't believe. Again, I try and build on commonalities.

And, to be perfectly honest, I could be completely wrong. When I die I could end up before God and he could say "Seth, you were SO off-base.... I'd like you to meet some friends of mine. Nephi, Moroni, Alma, and Enos.... come on over and meet Seth." However, believing that God is merciful and has a perfect understanding of all things I could, with a clear concscience, say that I simply did the best I could with what I was given.

Seth

Would that all who experience significant doubt would be like unto sethpayne. I appreciate your post brother.

[_Trevor]

Will -- I believe in God, and I believe the literal historical truth of the Book of Abraham is the wrong issue for debate, the narrative is what's important. Though I think the events are historical in some way -- let's not be too specific here -- dwelling on that is a distraction from the real message.

Will can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that he sees the actual antiquity of the text as important. Whether it is a product of Hellenistic-era Judaism or some such is not to be troubled over, but that it contains revelatory material that connects with antiquity in some way is the important thing. These traditions would, of course, probably go back to Abraham in some fashion.

By the way, I think Bushman's preference for narrative theology is great. My respect for you has risen because you know something about this. Cool.

Seth -- I believe in God, and I believe the literal historical truth of the Book of Abraham is the wrong issue for debate, the narrative is what's important. Though I think the events aren't historical, I could be wrong, but dwelling on them is a distraction from the real message.

Yes, amazing how two people can sound so similar on the surface and yet mean such different things. This is also what drives a lot of Christians crazy about Mormonism. ;-)

by the way, Trevor, do you think Seth would be considered an outright apostate by LoaP who apparently has sent drafts of his writings to Seth? If not, is Will or LoaP, both "literal believers" (which I think covers a lot of ground) better qualified to make a call on Seth's standing in the church?

Where on earth did you get the idea that I thought anyone ought to consider sethpayne an apostate? I was simply explaining why I thought it likely that certain people would.

[_sethpayne]

Would that all who experience significant doubt would be like unto sethpayne. I appreciate your post brother.

Tim,

Thank you for the kind words. It means a lot. Seriously. A lot.

Seth

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well,

In respect to Mr. "Gookie Cookie" Schryver showing up to the Trailer Park and clearly outclassing its denizens I'd like to remind the Mormons what kind of champion you have (emphasis mine):

What do we have here? A new candidate for the GSTP "loathsome specimen of womanhood" award?

Sad.

It's bad enough to watch what happens to the male apostates, but when the women go down that path, it gets really ugly really fast ...

My sincere condolences to your family.

Let us not be too concerned for Mr. Cookie's sentiments when it comes to his family. He, apparently, is all to willing to bring family into his vulgar tirades.

So it is with so many of these people. I honestly believe that if, by some strange combination of events, similar circumstances were to arise in this country as did in 1933 Germany, an overwhelming majority of the Mormon apostate evangelists would quite enthusiastically "put to the ovens" as many of the Saints as they possibly could.

Hitler!

No doubt this list could only be exceeded in length by my voluminous forays into crass vulgarity.

He delights in his wicked ways.

Sometimes I seriously wonder what some of these people are capable of. I've known for years that they would have joined in the mob that rushed the Carthage Jail, but now it's starting to look like just about any defender of Mormonism could potentially be made a target for their blood lust.

Well. You know. This is coming from a guy who has "ape arms" and a "pumpkin head" who "fights to kill". So. Ah. Yeeeeaaaahhh....

To be continued...

V/R
Dr. Cam "Still willing to spar with Mr. William "Gookie Cookie" Schryver on a friend wager" NC for Me

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

More from Mr. Schryver:

Speaking of which, let me hereby reiterate the comments I made towards the two allegedly female posters on this board (I emphasize "allegedly" because, seeing as how they both post anonymously, we therefore have no way of verifying their gender). In my ever-so-humble opinion, the MDB posters who go by the names "beastlie" and "dissonance" (or some variations thereof), are two of the most loathsome specimens of womanhood I have ever encountered in my half-century of life upon this planet. Of course, my opinion of these two females (or shemales, as the case may be) is shared by many, and therefore I speak also in behalf of several others whose association with the two creatures in question has produced sentiments similar to my own.

In any case, should the allegedly offended Sgt. CamNC4Me be so motivated by his indignation, I welcome him to be in attendance at the inevitable public debate between me and Mark Hofmann's old trusty sidekick, Brent Metcalfe. After the debate, we can repair to the parking lot where the "noble defender of the defenseless" may "hit me with his best shot" and then pray it was sufficient to render me incapable of reciprocation. Bear in mind that I am a devout adherent to the Ronald Speirs philosophy of combat. I take no prisoners. Hence the invitation for my putative opponent to attempt to deliver the first blow and thus provide me with an air-tight claim of self-defense.

I must confess that I find it fascinating that this is now the third member of The Great and Spacious Trailer Park (lostindc and Cracker Graham being the others) to threaten me with bodily harm whilst laboring under the perpetual state of humiliation consequent to engaging me in purely rhetorical contests.

Well. I'm not sure what to make of this rambling nonsense, but I will be delivering a cartoon shortly.

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Once again Mr. Schryver goes as low as the villains he complains about:

It's no wonder your marriage disintegrated, and it's no wonder you no longer can discern right from wrong when it comes to things like the inspiration of the brethren, the meaning of the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, and the various issues surrounding the Book of Abraham.

I'm thinking that outbursts like the one above and the ones seen on the thread with Liz are the result of you drinking a little too much. Maybe you should consider getting some help for your issues. Maybe in the process, you'll start to see lots of other things more clearly, too.

Anyway, just a suggestion. I'm sure you'll ignore it; even be offended by it.

Oh, well ... I'm not even convinced you're entirely responsible for your actions, since you manifest several signs of serious mental illness. I'm just saying that you obviously need some help. I hope you get it somewhere.

Wow. What a piece of crap moment the Champion of All Things Mormon is having. I wonder what The Bretheren would think of this Priesthood holder acting like this?

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

For someone who likes to boast that The Rest of Us Would Have to Masturbate to His Wife:

And now, speaking of serious "issues", Moniker shows up to chip in her two cents worth.
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By the way, have I previously mentioned that seven of nine is my favorite Star Trek character of all time?

Yeah. This Mormon Priesthood Holder certainly doesn't objectify, denigrate, or sexualize women at all. Nope.

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Mr. Schryver coming onto Liz:

By the way, Liz, just so you know: there was nothing derogatory towards you, not at all -- you know of my growing affection for you -- let's just say I was making inquiries into whether or not you have any vacancies in your special room ... what do you call it now?

Wow. That's chaste, virtuous, and an example for all other Disciples of Christ to follow I suppose...

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Mr. Schryver infantalizing a woman and making a dick-size joke:

If so, darling, I'd say it's just about commensurate with your envy. ;-)
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Edit: Besides, I think you would be the first to assure us that size does NOT matter.

I'm pretty sure most Mormons who would read this thread are beaming with pride to know Mr. Schryver reprents them (he had his Calling and Election Made Sure).

V/R
Dr. Cam