Mormonism -> Atheism, Why?

[_Yoda]

My opinion must threaten you Liz. Why can't I have my opinion and Jason have his? Just because we differ doesn't mean the universe is going to topple.

No, Thews...that's just it. Your opinion doesn't threaten me. I'm the one trying to be amicable, and saying that we can agree to disagree, and still have an interesting discussion. You are now stating that Jason can have his opinion? Good. That's a change of pace.

A Christian rejects Mormon doctrine, and a Mormon accepts Mormon doctrine. Juest because you want Christianity to embrace Joseph Smith as a prophet of God doesn't make it so... we will continue to disagree, and all the highfives in the world isn't goign to change that. Call yourself what you wish, but if you believe in the Mormon doctrine of joseph Smith you are in fact a Mormon by definition.

Again, you are bundling all Christians together, as if they are all one sect. They aren't. Yes, other Christian sects reject Mormon doctrine. Catholic sects reject Baptist doctrine. Lutheran sects reject Catholic doctrine...etc. I have no interest in wanting Christianity to embrace Joseph Smith as a prophet of God. But I do take issue with you, or anyone else, attempting to dictate to me what I do or don't believe, or whom I do or do not worship. I worship Jesus Christ, and have just as much right to call myself Christian as you, or anyone else who worships Jesus Christ does.

[_Ray A]

What I don't get is the sentiment that I'm denying someone the right to be "Christian" with what I believe. Lost in this is what a "Mormon" is... if one wants to be known as a Christian, but also believe in Mormon doctrine, it defines cognitive dissonance as that what it is... two conflicting things at the same time.

Which is basically a fundamentalist view. You see no conflicts in the Bible?

Back to the Lucky Charm leprechaun analogy, if I were to seriously claim the Lucky Charm Leprechaun spoke to me and gave me new doctrine to "restore" what the Bible left out, then also claim it was another Christian sect, you'd agree with me that it was in fact not Christian, but LuckCharmian with the story of the Limitards and the Troglidites. As far fetched as that may seem, it's the exact same thing as Joseph Smith as his doctrine. I don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, just like you wouldn't believe in the Lucky Charm leprechaun being a prophet of God. Do you see my point?

And you know that Jesus wasn't a "Lucky Charm Leprechaun"? He was considered to be an apostate from Judaism by some, "who led the people astray" (See F.F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?)

The focus of this argument is what defines a "Mormon" and not what defines a "Christian." A “Mormon” accepts Joseph Smith and the doctrine of Joseph Smith… that’s what a “Mormon” is.

There are all kinds of Mormons, which include Poll's "Liahona" Mormons, and now we even have "Legacy Mormons", and of course Scott's "Folk Mormons".

Yet you seem to think that all of them can be lumped in one basket.

Do you think Hans Kung is a Catholic Christian? What is your view of Soren Kierkegaard? Was he a Christian?

[_thews]

So far, I've seen you be dogmatically wedded to your opinion even when confronted with good evidence to the contrary. You then either ignore the presented evidence or throw out insults. So far, you've presented no evidence that you actually hear the other party, period.

In fact, your posting style has been so ridiculous and extreme I suspect you're a sock puppet trying to liven the place up.

Ouch baby very ouch... more Mormon-like jabs ... do you feel like a great big man now?

[_Ray A]

do you feel like a great big man now?

I don't think she does. LOL.

[_thews]

Which is basically a fundamentalist view. You see no conflicts in the Bible?

I do actually.. but I'm good with it. I think for myself and don't seed a support network to bolster it.

And you know that Jesus wasn't a "Lucky Charm Leprechaun"? He was considered to be an apostate from Judaism by some, "who led the people astray" (See F.F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?)

And a rock is not a glass of water ...your point?

There are all kinds of Mormons, which include Poll's "Liahona" Mormons, and now we even have "Legacy Mormons", and of course Scott's "Folk Mormons".

Yet you seem to think that all of them can be lumped in one basket.

You are correct. If you believe in Joseph Smith and the doctrine of Joseph Smith, you are in fact a Mormon by definition. Some sect of Mormons may vary, but they all believe in the Book of Mormon which is from the "Mormon" prophet of God in Joseph Smith. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

Do you think Hans Kung is a Catholic Christian? What is your view of Soren Kierkegaard? Was he a Christian?

Um... I won't go down the path you're leadign towards, as it's typical Mormonspeak to offer a parallel argument to negate a false belief. Call yourself what you wish, but if it involves Joseph Smith, you are by definition a Mormon.

[_Ray A]

Um... I won't go down the path you're leadign towards, as it's typical Mormonspeak to offer a parallel argument to negate a false belief. Call yourself what you wish, but if it involves Joseph Smith, you are by definition a Mormon.

I am not a Mormon, and I think many Mormon beliefs to be utterly stupid and nonsensical and utter fantasy. I joined "the Church" because of my belief in Christ (at the time), and later withdrew my membership because of what I felt were "un-Christlike" beliefs and teachings, cover-ups, and my utter, unbridled hatred of polygamy (would you want your daughters in this abomination?). I still, however, feel that there is much in Mormonism which arouses "Christian sensitivities" in many of them, so tend to look for the positives in that. As I always have. As for the Book of Mormon being "history", as far as I'm concerned it can go down the nearest toilet.

[_thews]

Um... I won't go down the path you're leadign towards, as it's typical Mormonspeak to offer a parallel argument to negate a false belief. Call yourself what you wish, but if it involves Joseph Smith, you are by definition a Mormon.

I am not a Mormon, and I think many Mormon beliefs to be utterly stupid and nonsensical and utter fantasy. I joined "the Church" because of my belief in Christ (at the time), and later withdrew my membership because of what I felt were "un-Christlike" beliefs and teachings, cover-ups, and my utter, unbridled hatred of polygamy (would you want your daughters in this abomination?). I still, however, feel that there is much in Mormonism which arouses "Christian sensitivities" in many of them, so tend to look for the positives in that. As I always have. As for the Book of Mormon being "history", as far as I'm concerned it can go down the nearest toilet.

Then we agree on a lot of things. Tellyawhat, let's form an alliance and we'll vote harmony off the island... I got yer back my brother from another mother. :highfive:

[_beastie]

Ouch baby very ouch... more Mormon-like jabs ... do you feel like a great big man now?

No, proving you wrong doesn't make me feel like a "great big man" because a child could do it.

[_Thama]

If it were completely up to "Christians" like thews to make arguments against Mormonism, nobody would ever leave it.

[_thews]

Ouch baby very ouch... more Mormon-like jabs ... do you feel like a great big man now?

No, proving you wrong doesn't make me feel like a "great big man" because a child could do it.

You are so awesome... please give us a list so we can all be as awesome as you are (insert the correct opinion here)