The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2011

[_sock puppet]

We expected much from these religious institutions and investigating them has led a lot of people to get upset and disillusioned. They are taking out their disappointment on the institutions themselves.

Had I joined for emotional or social reasons, I'd have little to no reason for disappointment or disillusion.

I was born into Mormonism, cultivated by it, and stayed a participant of it to the degree that I did because I accepted and believed its truth claims--those about God having appeared to JSJr, His angel Moroni having provided a record on gold plates to JSJr about Jesus appearing in the Americas following his resurrection in Jerusalem, that we are on a progressive track to become ever more powerful as God is, etc.

Finding out what a charlatan JSJr and some of his compatriots of the time were up to and did, well, disillusionment, disappointment and resentment towards Mormonism were the natural consequence of having been so deceived.

[_Some Schmo]

Now, are the individuals who generally stick around here fair to Mormonism? No.

I don't know how you can say this with any kind of confidence. A person says about the church what they feel, don't they? How is that not fair? If they feel slighted by the religion to the point where they say something that may sound outrageous to you, it doesn't mean it's not fair to them. You don't know exactly what they've been through.

Besides, if an institution tells you to sacrifice a ton of your time and 10% of your cash (not to mention all the unnecessary guilt they induce) on the premise that they have all the eternal answers, and it turns out it's a scam, I don't think there's anything that could be said about it that could be construed as "unfair" in the least.

[_sock puppet]

Now I have to take a break.

I've kicked enough butt for one morning.

Ray, are you a sockpuppet offspring of bcspace, Simon and Droopy?

[_sock puppet]

I can't find this prophecy, I've been searching Don's posts, but no luck.

I don't recall it, but I can't say it did not happen.

And we know that absence of proof is of itself proof, right? ;-)

[_RayAgostini]

I can't find this prophecy, I've been searching Don's posts, but no luck.

Don,

Your prophecies of the downfall of this board due to the recent skirmish is unwarranted. This board has experienced other skirmishes and yet survives.

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... sm#p343083

I don't have the time to go back, but if you search some more, you'll find them. At the time, I didn't take Don very seriously either, but I think now he was right.

[_MrStakhanovite]

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... sm#p343083

I don't have the time to go back, but if you search some more, you'll find them. At the time, I didn't take Don very seriously either, but I think now he was right.

Thanks Ray! That thread reminded me why I'm glad we ran that Trevor guy off.

[_RayAgostini]

Thanks Ray! That thread reminded me why I'm glad we ran that Trevor guy off.

I couldn't agree more. He was a pain in the butt!

[_schreech]

I couldn't agree more. He was a pain in the butt!

[_Kishkumen]

I agree some may find social benefits from religious participation, but I fit those under the umbrella of the emotional need for paternalistic protection (my #(d) above).

The discussion we had, which I cannot locate at the moment, centered on the meaning of evidence. Some have the tendency to think of evidence as that which convincingly proves the Church true. Really evidence is that information which lends credence to one's argument. I think there are tantalizing bits of evidence in favor of the Mormon position. Perhaps the most famous by now in Book of Mormon discussions is NHM. I am also aware of its limitations as evidence. Still, I am, on the whole, inclined to call it evidence in favor of, rather than against, the Mormon argument regarding the antiquity of the Book of Mormon.

I don't view all of the evidence as being merely warm fuzzies.

Now, I could also go through all of the reasons I find the evidence of NHM not to be particularly strong. That, however, is another question.

[_Kishkumen]

I don't know how you can say this with any kind of confidence. A person says about the church what they feel, don't they? How is that not fair? If they feel slighted by the religion to the point where they say something that may sound outrageous to you, it doesn't mean it's not fair to them. You don't know exactly what they've been through.

Besides, if an institution tells you to sacrifice a ton of your time and 10% of your cash (not to mention all the unnecessary guilt they induce) on the premise that they have all the eternal answers, and it turns out it's a scam, I don't think there's anything that could be said about it that could be construed as "unfair" in the least.

Sure, Schmo, the perception of fairness varies according to perspective. One consideration I try to observe on occasion is the perception of the person with whom I disagree. If that person believes I have been unfair, I think it reasonable to consider how I might behave more diplomatically such that I do not trample all over their feelings and point of view. Obviously, if you are convinced that Mormonism is a scam, then you feel fair calling it for what it is. But this discussion is about how our LDS interlocutors might feel about our fairness. I am sure the majority of us believe ourselves to be the fairest folk on earth, no matter which side of the issue we occupy.