OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years now!

[_AlmaBound]

So there you go, just clean up the simple areas, areas that can be seen.

[_Darth J]

The manual instructs the teacher to read Russell M. Nelson's talk to prepare for teaching this lesson. In that talk, Nelson says we can achieve perfect obedience to the commandments in mortal life.

No, it doesn't say that at all. I will use your quote and add emphasis to show you.

"Mortal perfection can be achieved as we try to perform every duty, keep every law, and strive to be as perfect in our sphere as our Heavenly Father is in his."

The point is, that MORTAL "perfection" - what is classified as "perfection" in this life, is our continuous STRIVING to do the best we possibly can.

No one expects full perfection in this life, except in perhaps simple areas, like the word of wisdom, or tithing etc.

No. I will add in emphasis in the right place:

"Mortal perfection can be achieved as we try to perform every duty, keep every law, and strive to be as perfect in our sphere as our Heavenly Father is in his."

"As we try" does not render the preceding clause to mean "mortal perfection cannot be achieved." "As we try" is a dependent clause of "mortal perfection can be achieved." http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/598/01/

According to basic English grammar, "as we try" and "strive" tell us how "mortal perfection can be achieved."

[_mfbukowski]

You are missing what she said in the OP, which puts her follow-up statement in context:

"Life is a lot more exhilarating and complicated without the church to tell me what to do."

She thinks the Church tells people what to do too much, and that problem is compounded by not even specifying how to do it.

That is totally contradictory. And the fact is, what the church "tells you to do" is precisely HOW one obtains a happy life.

At least for those it works for. And if it doesn't work for someone, why the angst? Try something else. I left the original church I was born into and became an atheist, and then became a Mormon. Each change was opposed by family, friends and others.

You have to do what your heart tells you to do. That is part of being an authentic human being.

And ultimately I think that is what the church teaches as well. You have to have your own testimony. And if you don't, you don't.

[_mfbukowski]

According to basic English grammar, "as we try" and "strive" tell us how "mortal perfection can be achieved."

Oh gosh.

Yes you are right. It is, in effect, a DEFINITION.

It says "What we call 'mortal perfection' = try + strive"

Get it now? No one expects you to be PERFECT in this life, just to try and do your very best.

[_mfbukowski]

We make decisions in life.

You take responsibility and move on. You don't blame others for what you have done with your life- you face the facts and move on.

If you waste your life not believing in what you profess or act as if you believe, it's no one's fault but your own.

[_mfbukowski]

So there you go, just clean up the simple areas, areas that can be seen.

It's not that they "can be seen"- it's just areas which are habits which can be developed and easily controlled and self-measured.

[Guest]

You are missing what she said in the OP, which puts her follow-up statement in context:

"Life is a lot more exhilarating and complicated without the church to tell me what to do."

She thinks the Church tells people what to do too much, and that problem is compounded by not even specifying how to do it.

That is totally contradictory.

No, it isn't.

"The Church causes problems by giving you too many instructions. And the problem is worse because even if you try to follow them, the Church doesn't really tell you how to do it."

"This statute is both overly broad and void for vagueness." http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F ... 463_1.html

"This computer program is too complicated to be functional. And the lack of functionality is made worse because the user guide is too vague."

"My boss at work is too demanding and gives me more tasks than I can possibly do. And I couldn't even do what he says if I tried, because he doesn't explain how I am supposed to do what he is saying."

"This recipe is terrible because it has so many ingredients that it won't cook right and doesn't taste good. Plus, the instructions are vague."

And the fact is, what the church "tells you to do" is precisely HOW one obtains a happy life.

No, that would be a statement of faith, not a fact.

At least for those it works for. And if it doesn't work for someone, why the angst? Try something else. I left the original church I was born into and became an atheist, and then became a Mormon. Each change was opposed by family, friends and others.

Well, if that was your situation, then clearly we can extrapolate that to the entire human race. I don't suppose you got divorced over your decision, did you? Maybe have your spouse try to dictate your kids being raised in your original church against your wishes?

You have to do what your heart tells you to do. That is part of being an authentic human being.

Well, at least it took you fewer pages of thread to figure out what the OP explicitly says than it took Why Me.

And ultimately I think that is what the church teaches as well. You have to have your own testimony. And if you don't, you don't.

Oh, I think it permeates all LDS teachings that one religion is just as good as another, while accepting and living the Restored Gospel of the One True Church is just a matter of taste.

[_Darth J]

According to basic English grammar, "as we try" and "strive" tell us how "mortal perfection can be achieved."

Oh gosh.

Yes you are right. It is, in effect, a DEFINITION.

It says "What we call 'mortal perfection' = try + strive"

Get it now? No one expects you to be PERFECT in this life, just to try and do your very best.

The following is an independent clause:

""Mortal perfection can be achieved."

What do these words mean?

[_Analytics]

That is totally contradictory. And the fact is, what the church "tells you to do" is precisely HOW one obtains a happy life.

At least for those it works for. And if it doesn't work for someone, why the angst? Try something else. I left the original church I was born into and became an atheist, and then became a Mormon. Each change was opposed by family, friends and others.

And now you have the role of opposing change in strangers! Like it?

[_just me]

This just in!

Ok, LDSToronto harassed me into fixing my concert memory.

I went to see Depeche Mode in November 1993 and Nirvana was December 1993. Just several weeks apart. BUT, the kissing happened at McNichol's Arena in my memory and that is where DM played. Also, November is voting time. Sooo, unless my journal entry tells me for sure (which I'm kinda too lazy to look for) it was much more likely the kissing happened at the DM concert.

LMAO

I already knew my memory was shiz. Thanks for letting me take the opportunity to let everyone know it.