Book of Mormon geography

[_Tobin]

It's almost as if Tobin is criticizing early Mormons (including Joseph Smith) for jumping to conclusions based on their uninformed assumptions about ruins in Mesoamerica, while at the same time he is jumping to conclusions based on his uninformed assumptions about ruins in Mesoamerica.

I'm sure that can't be the case, though, so there must be some more reasonable explanation.

Of course I'm stating that early Mormons were misinformed and I'm stating that you are misinformed. I am also saying that Mormon apologists/archeologists that propose these "geographies" are misguided and should focus on three things instead: 1) Horse bone remains. 2) Iron weapon remains. 3) Examples of reformed egyptian, which would be characteristically different from Mayan. Without evidence of these major items, the position that any of the Book of Mormon took place in Mesoamerica is completely untenable.

[_Chap]

It's almost as if Tobin is criticizing early Mormons (including Joseph Smith) for jumping to conclusions based on their uninformed assumptions about ruins in Mesoamerica, while at the same time he is jumping to conclusions based on his uninformed assumptions about ruins in Mesoamerica.

I'm sure that can't be the case, though, so there must be some more reasonable explanation.

Of course I'm stating that early Mormons were misinformed and I'm stating that you are misinformed. I am also saying that Mormon apologists/archeologists that propose these "geographies" are misguided and should focus on three things instead: 1) Horse bone remains. 2) Iron weapon remains. 3) Examples of reformed egyptian, which would be characteristically different from Mayan. Without evidence of these major items, the position that any of the Book of Mormon took place in Mesoamerica is completely untenable.

If only he would stop there. Problem is, he can't resist the temptation to say a bit more:

viewtopic.php?p=587884#p587884

Now as far as horse bones and steel (iron) swords, I agree that those are what are important. That is exactly what Mormon archeologists should be looking for. I believe definitive examples will be found eventually and when they are that will dramatically change our view of the Americas since so much has been made out of the lack of examples so far.

And the justification for saying that in the context of a discussion of Book of Mormon geography is what, exactly?

[_Darth J]

Now as far as horse bones and steel (iron) swords, I agree that those are what are important. That is exactly what Mormon archeologists should be looking for. I believe definitive examples will be found eventually and when they are that will dramatically change our view of the Americas since so much has been made out of the lack of examples so far.

And the justification for saying that in the context of a discussion of Book of Mormon geography is what, exactly?

"You weren't there! You don't know! Nobody knows!"

[_Quasimodo]

I've been trying to get a reasonable explanation from Tobin for some time. I guess it's my fault for not understanding it.

But God is OK with Tobin's point of view. If he wasn't he'd certainly have told him.

So who are you to put in your two cents' worth?

Good point Chap! Who am I to argue with God? Even the Maya (who still exist and venerate their ancient culture) should realize that they have been wrong for all these centuries in denying the Mormon God. It's time they face reality and admit their Jewish heritage.

[_Tobin]

And the justification for saying that in the context of a discussion of Book of Mormon geography is what, exactly?

This is a Mormon discussion forum and I was expressing my belief. As I have often expressed my belief in the Book of Mormon, God and other things. That's kind of the point of having a discussion - to share views. My view may not be valid, but that is for me to determine and why I engage in this forum. Otherwise, I wouldn't participate.

[_Chap]

... My view may not be valid, but that is for me to determine ...

I hate to break it to you, but ... no, that would be unkind.

Nobody say anything, OK?

[_beastie]

Do you intend to ignore my challenge, Tobin?

Once again:

I want you to put your money where your mouth is. I'd like you to list the books you've read about Mesoamerica, written by the experts in the field. I'm not talking about Book of Mormon apologia, but just the books you've read from which you gathered information about the claims being made about ancient Mesoamerica.

Next I want you to take three examples from those books that you believe best illustrates why these experts are over-stating the knowledge we actually have about ancient Mesoamerica. Provide the claims they've made, which are, basically, made-up, and then provide the information that demonstrates why these claims are best viewed as unreliable, due to the lack of adequate writing evidence.

[_Quasimodo]

... My view may not be valid, but that is for me to determine ...

I hate to break it to you, but ... no, that would be unkind.

Nobody say anything, OK?

You're a cruel taskmaster, Chap. I'm dying to say something. It's hard not to take a swing at such a slow ball. That's an old Baseball saying in the States. There must be some phrase similar in Cricket.

[_Sophocles]

This is Mormon Discussions. It's not cricket.

[_Tobin]

Do you intend to ignore my challenge, Tobin?

Yes, I do intend to ignore your challenge. I don't claim to be an expert in this field nor do I pretend to have a degree in it. Believe it or not, I do have other interests and a career in another field. So - most of the information I have gathered came from books I read about it over a decade ago when I was contemplating leaving Mormonism. And I have tried to stay up on what is developing in this field through various articles have been published and documentaries.

Does that disqualify me from making reasonable assertions and observations about Book of Mormon geography? I don't think so. As I've said, I don't see much point to it and have yet to see anything presented here that demonstrates it is valid. Does that disqualify me from asking questions and not believing baseless assertions and generalizations? No. This is a discussion forum on Mormonism and I have an interest in the topic. If people, who are experts, want to present compelling information on this topic, I'm more than happy to look at and consider it.