kairos wrote:Rosebud wrote:So by "affidavit" Karren means the supporting documents that people filed to help his ex-wife get her temporary orders.
http://api.ning.com/files/YiH**gdlUoWnH ... bit05A.pdfWhat I don't understand is why Karren needed a court to force him to behave during the divorce if he wasn't abusive. In better relationships, those that really just end because of irreconcilable differences, people don't need judges to enforce temporary orders. The couple is able to figure it out on their own. Sure, the negotiations between the parties might be difficult at times, but there is no need for a judge to jump in and force a man who controls all the money and who refuses to leave the marital home to provide his wife with money to keep paying the bills and buying the groceries and to get out of the house. Maybe there was a good argument for him to keep the house and for her to move out. Fine. Did he provide her any money so that she could sign a lease and find a place that would allow her to care for her children when it was her parenting time or did he stand at the door of his home and refuse to leave (keeping control of all the money so she had no escape except through the courts) until a judge ordered him to give her some money and "evicted" him? (His word, not mine.)
I'm not impressed either, that the first thing he said to her when she said she wanted a divorce was, "You know your'e going to lose the kids" (or something like that). In giving us this detail, he just provided his own evidence that he held the children over his wife's head in an attempt to force her to stay in the marriage. Again, he is providing evidence that he was an abusive partner.
Not to repeat the obvious, but his ex-wife was not obligated to remain married to him regardless of any abuse and family dysfunction that might have been going on. A woman should never be forced to remain in a marriage in order to keep her children. Karren believed he owned her. Women have a right to divorce their husbands, even their possessive Mormon and ex-Mormon husbands.
As for Karren's claims about Mikelsen's sexual abuse, I still have no evidence besides Karren's claims. I use the evidence Karren provides against Karren and the evidence Mikelsen or the church provides against Mikelsen and the church. So far, Karren is providing a lot of evidence against Karren and nothing but his word against Mikelsen. (Thus a good incentive for Mikelsen and the church not to respond. Anything they say can and will be used against them.)
The issues with the validity of the victims' testimonies I have addressed upthread.
Do you think that Karren's "you know you are not going to get the kids" set off the alarms for his wife and the Mickelson tribe including getting apostle Scott involved to get as many affidavits as possible to show/prove etc Karren was abusive/unfit/uncontrollable blah blah so wife would get a chance at getting the kids?
I appreciate all your insights on the thread- my sense is he is repeating and exaggerating but on the key issue imho something abusive did happen to the daughter. notice how the wife has said that karren put the daughter "up to it" eg the accusations. of course Karren is trying to put together a conspiracy against himself type argument and he too weaves all he can into that theory.
what do you think the outcome will be?
k
I don't know. I don't really have enough information. I suppose that's a possibility. Mostly I think that Karren is publicly demonstrating that his behaviors towards his wife currently follow and have historically followed a common pattern of abuse. This makes me think that it's likely his ex was very stuck in a toxic relationship for a long time and that she finally figured out how to get out. This aligns with her description of what happened from her motion for temporary orders and what many other victims of abusive partners report experiencing.
Until we hear her story, we won't know much more about any of the factors that got her to that place and, I suppose, that if and when we hear her story we will be able to wonder if she is telling the full truth or even if she's telling a story to the public she was instructed to tell. It is possible that Mikelsen and Scott and possibly others were abusing all the kids in that family. Who knows? It's also possible they weren't. It's just as possible that Karren was part of the abuse too.
I think one possibility is that people who loved his ex-wife saw how desperate of a situation she was in even if Karren was incapable of recognizing the difference between her perspective and his own and that the people who loved her worked together to help her escape. The filings to support her temporary order could have been that and yes, could have been an effort to help her keep her kids despite Karren's threats.
Another possibility, I suppose, is that one of the things Karren held over her head (in addition to children and money which he has provided evidence of) to force her to stay in the relationship was the threat that if she didn't stay, he'd expose her family (either falsely or accurately) and that at some point her family tried to do what they could to help her escape anyway. Maybe he's making due on his threats to expose them now. Maybe their filings against him were to protect themselves from this eventuality. Maybe this was the consequence she knew she might someday have to take if she wanted to earn her freedom. There are lots of other possibilities too. Speculation speculation.
I do feel very certain about the proof of his own abusive nature Karren has provided. I feel less certain about claims people make of each other. False accusations are so easy to throw around in divorce for gain. It happens all the time. Family law is a mess. Taking it to this level is unwell.
I think in the end that we'll have very little certainty about much because the case is too muddled. It would be nice to see some productive discussion and public child abuse education and prevention come from this although I don't think any individual victims should be pressured to self-sacrifice for any greater Mormon good. That's the kind of Mormon talk a lot of victims already hear all the time. It's the stronger people, or the people with more power and more to lose, who should be taking the brunt of these problems in Mormonism. The victims have already done enough.
