Bigotry against the CoJCoLDS?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Post by _moksha »

VegasRefugee wrote: Here we see the species "Mormonus assininus" in his natural habitat, misdirection. The clumsy and pathetic actions taken by the specimen indicate he was the runt, likely having to wait at his mothers teat while the bigger, healthier Assininus' had their fill.

The cycle will repeat until wade is called a tool and repeatedly made fun of by everyone. Thus we see the lifecycle of Assininus going from humiliation to humiliation even while being totally unaware of his mental shortcomings.


I couldn't disagree with you more. Not only does everyone have a right to post on this forum, they should be able to do so in an unmolested manner. I have looked at Shades and Kevin's forum as an alternative and a refuge from FAIR. I do not want them to be intolerant hate filled places that exist to bash Mormons. That is why I am speaking up. This Forum has some life in it. If an attempt is made to drive away those who do not agree, then this will only serve to suck the life out of Dr. Shades Forums, since all people of good conscience will eventually drift away. The mean spiritedness of your post is entirely uncalled for and further the participants here should be treated with the dignity and respect they deserve.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Southern Redneck
_Emeritus
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:41 am

Post by _Southern Redneck »

moksha wrote:
VegasRefugee wrote: Here we see the species "Mormonus assininus" in his natural habitat, misdirection. The clumsy and pathetic actions taken by the specimen indicate he was the runt, likely having to wait at his mothers teat while the bigger, healthier Assininus' had their fill.

The cycle will repeat until wade is called a tool and repeatedly made fun of by everyone. Thus we see the lifecycle of Assininus going from humiliation to humiliation even while being totally unaware of his mental shortcomings.


I couldn't disagree with you more. Not only does everyone have a right to post on this forum, they should be able to do so in an unmolested manner. I have looked at Shades and Kevin's forum as an alternative and a refuge from FAIR. I do not want them to be intolerant hate filled places that exist to bash Mormons. That is why I am speaking up. This Forum has some life in it. If an attempt is made to drive away those who do not agree, then this will only serve to suck the life out of Dr. Shades Forums, since all people of good conscience will eventually drift away. The mean spiritedness of your post is entirely uncalled for and further the participants here should be treated with the dignity and respect they deserve.

I agree with Moksha. This thread on "are you a bigot" is enlightening, and hopefully it can be for him. He uses the term to often and any effect it might have had, has been diluted from overuse, so maybe he can learn as much as he desires us to learn.

But never never try to silence him.
_wenglund
_Emeritus
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:25 pm

Re: Bigotry against the CoJCoLDS?

Post by _wenglund »

VegasRefugee wrote:
wenglund wrote:I am just curious to see whether any of the participant here (particularly Polygamy Porter, MormonMendacity, Scratch, and Tal Bachman) consider themselves to be bigotted against the CoJCoLDS?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


I consider you to be a bigot towards individuals who disagree with you.


I realize that is how you see ME. But, if you look a little more closely, you will see that the question is regarding THEMSLEVES (or, for the comprehension impaired, I am asking each of YOU whether YOU consider YOURSELVES as religious bigots). Do you understand the differnce now?

But, maybe in the way you are responding on this thread, you are inadvertantly answering the question, and putting it beyond question, nevertheless. We'll see. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_wenglund
_Emeritus
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:25 pm

Post by _wenglund »

Tal Bachman wrote: Hi Wade

This is kind of a difficult question to answer, because even when someone is a bigot, it is almost impossible for vanity reasons to acknowledge that to oneself. For example, all of us have heard people begin a sentence by saying, "You know I don't have a racist bone in my body, but...". And right then comes a comment that many people might consider racist. Their self-image, in other words, tells us virtually nothing about whatever bigotry they may really feel, or be guilty of.


I understand this human tendancy. In fact, it is not uncommon for people to errantly consider themselves as not bigotted, while errantly considering others as bigotted. Or, even when correctly noting the bigotry of others, people can be blind to even more incideous bigotry in themselves.

As an illustration of this, Wade, perhaps I can point out that you probably feel you are not bigoted against those with homosexual inclinations - yet, it is a fact that many millions of people, including probably 95 plus percent of all gay people on earth, plus probably 95 plus percent of all psychologists or psychiatrists on earth, would state flatly that you were, based on your writings on "sexual attraction disorders" at http://www.aros.net/~wenglund/sad.htm#Papers. They would also say your writings betrayed not only bigotry, but profound ignorance. Would that mean you were an ignorant bigot? If you said you weren't, but all those people said you were....who should we believe? And what in the end would it matter what you said? You can hear people say, "I'm not racist, but I don't like black people". You know? So what? What does that tell us, other than maybe that the human race is mad and vain?


I am not sure if your percentages are correct except perhaps in terms of the unreasonable and irrationally emotional among us. But I understand your point. One does not change minds and hearts simply by affixing a label, particularly if those on whom the label is being affixed reject the application.

And, were that my intent, your point may have some relevance. It's not, and so it doesn't. In fact, if you read my Anti-Bigotry Initiative web site, you will learn that I am attempting to avoid that happening with me and the general discussion on bigotry.

P.S. Would you say that someone who believed that Catholics belonged to a church, the creed of which was an "abomination", qualified as a bigot? Catholics might - but that would also include you, wouldn't it, given that you believe that Joseph Smith was really quoting Jesus in his D & C autobiography...and it would also include me, since I think the Catholic church overall actually is a religious abomination, though I applaud them for their relief efforts, and I know a lot of Catholics I like personally.


No. I would not say that is bigotted regardless of whether someone is confused as to who or what the statement from Joseph was specifically in reference to, or who one attribute as the source for the statement. It doesn't meet the requirements of my GENERIC definition.

You know what I'm saying? The answer is that there is probably no one on here who thinks of himself as a bigot. But what does that really mean? It's like how everyone says, "I'm a good person". So what? All it might really mean is that we're all vain.


Yes, I understand what you mean. That is why I asked the follow-up question: "Do you think it is possible to be bigotted against the CoJCoLDS? And, if so, what would it look like?"

I would be interested to see your answer.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_wenglund
_Emeritus
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:25 pm

Post by _wenglund »

moksha wrote:
VegasRefugee wrote: Here we see the species "Mormonus assininus" in his natural habitat, misdirection. The clumsy and pathetic actions taken by the specimen indicate he was the runt, likely having to wait at his mothers teat while the bigger, healthier Assininus' had their fill.

The cycle will repeat until wade is called a tool and repeatedly made fun of by everyone. Thus we see the lifecycle of Assininus going from humiliation to humiliation even while being totally unaware of his mental shortcomings.


I couldn't disagree with you more. Not only does everyone have a right to post on this forum, they should be able to do so in an unmolested manner. I have looked at Shades and Kevin's forum as an alternative and a refuge from FAIR. I do not want them to be intolerant hate filled places that exist to bash Mormons. That is why I am speaking up. This Forum has some life in it. If an attempt is made to drive away those who do not agree, then this will only serve to suck the life out of Dr. Shades Forums, since all people of good conscience will eventually drift away. The mean spiritedness of your post is entirely uncalled for and further the participants here should be treated with the dignity and respect they deserve.


Those are excellent thoughts Moksha. It will be interesting to see if they take hold, or are defied. Either way, it will give us some insight into VegausRefugee's thinking, and may even be illustrative, one way or another, of the issue under question in this thread. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_Tal Bachman
_Emeritus
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:05 pm

Post by _Tal Bachman »

Sure, I guess it's possible to be bigoted against anything. But the difficulty is, the term "bigotry" is tossed around so much, I don't even really know what it's supposed to mean anymore. Like, every hyper-sensitive person in any supposedly oppressed group screams bigotry at everything from the most innocent slip-ups to real discrimination and everything in between. Ideological fanatics, like say your local Muslims, scream bigotry when we say we ought not to put a bombing operation on hold because of Ramadan. Some Mormons seem like they just yearn to feel as discriminated against as possible. Some Mormons think anti-Mormon bigotry is a guy saying "Mormonism is a fraud". I don't even know what the term means anymore. Actually, maybe I do - it can mean whatever someone who desperately wants to feel like a member of a victimized group wants it so mean. It can include a light joke, a heavy joke, a nasty look, silence, a declaration that what the would-be-victim believe is false, an expressed preference for some other group, anything and everything that someone needs it to mean, who for whatever reasons, requires enemies or victimization.
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Bigot, racist and intolerant, are three words that have almost no meaning, yet carry with them tremendous power and influence.

Idiots use them when they cannot argue intelligently.
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

Kevin Graham wrote:Bigot, racist and intolerant, are three words that have almost no meaning, yet carry with them tremendous power and influence.

Idiots use them when they cannot argue intelligently.


I wonder what that says about those who start the discussion using such words? It's like they've given up on their argument before they have even started.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Kevin Graham wrote:It could probably be just as easily argued that the CoJCoLDS is bigoted against them.


Hardly.

They have left the Church and now are irrationally fill of vile and spite for any believer. Look, I am ok if they want to leave, and even if they want to debate the issues they have trouble with. There are many that do that and are certianoly not bigots, do not hate the Church or all things related to it and are not enemies. Beastie, Shades even, folsk like this...not bigots. PP, Norton, Vegas, etc. Yep.

Jason
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:It could probably be just as easily argued that the CoJCoLDS is bigoted against them.


Hardly.

They have left the Church and now are irrationally fill of vile and spite for any believer. Look, I am ok if they want to leave, and even if they want to debate the issues they have trouble with. There are many that do that and are certianoly not bigots, do not hate the Church or all things related to it and are not enemies. Beastie, Shades even, folsk like this...not bigots. PP, Norton, Vegas, etc. Yep.

Jason


I don't begrudge people's anger toward the church. I know what it is to feel totally betrayed by an organization you gave your life to. I'm glad I've gotten past a great deal of that anger, but if people like Nort, Vegas, and PP need to vent their feelings, I'm not going to criticize them. I think we lose a lot in our attempts to be "nice."
Post Reply