Ballard just laid off the entire FARMs group

Post by **_Coggins7** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:33 pm

There's nothing in your argument to pick apart Harmony, because there is no argument there. All there are are a few baseless claims regarding a religious organization about which you know precious little.

Arguing with you is fruitless because of your substantial lack of knowledge regarding LDS doctrine, history, and philosophy, and because your actual agenda is nothing more or less to slander and impugn the Church, not critically debate any issues or points.

Or we could talk about the really drives you to these boards Harmony.

Post by **_Zoidberg** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:40 pm

Coggins7 wrote:Really? Benson advocated the abolishment of the Church's welfare program and the Church's disaster aid to foreign countries?

Why aren't you watching the Conference, Coggins? Don't put words in my mouth. Not the Church's programs, the government's. He was also advocating theocracy on a national level. Against the Foreign Aid program: "The Book of Mormon Warns America"; against the welfare program: "The Proper Role of Government". You can find the audios here: http://www.gapages.com/bensoet2.htm

The text of the second talk is also found here: http://zionsbest.com/proper_role.html

Post by **_Mercury** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:44 pm

What a Dodgy irrelevant tangent he pulled out of his ass.

Post by **_harmony** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:44 pm

Coggins7 wrote:There's nothing in your argument to pick apart Harmony, because there is no argument there. All there are are a few baseless claims regarding a religious organization about which you know precious little.

Arguing with you is fruitless because of your substantial lack of knowledge regarding LDS doctrine, history, and philosophy, and because your actual agenda is nothing more or less to slander and impugn the Church, not critically debate any issues or points.

Or we could talk about the really drives you to these boards Harmony.

You, my dear. Only you! *queue music from the Twilight Zone*

The church collects in the neighborhood of $5 billion a year... and you're crowing about a few paltry millions they're forced to use in humanitarian aid?

Now is the time to prepare to meet God, Loran. And buying shopping malls and building granite edifices to glorify old and/or dead men has nothing to do with preparing to meet God. We should be building hospitals in 3rd world countries! And homeless shelters in megacities! And shelters for battered women! And children's playgrounds! Instead, we spend our money on ourselves, and on making money. I'd like to be a nobody in the back row when our current crop of leaders is brought up to the Judgment Bar. The financial decisions they've made have been excruciatingly self-serving.

Post by **_Mercury** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:53 pm

harmony wrote:...our current crop of leaders ...

Um, the rest of them have not been stellar examples of propriety.

Post by **_harmony** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:01 am

Mercury wrote:
harmony wrote:...our current crop of leaders ...

Um, the rest of them have not been stellar examples of propriety.

Are you referring to Brigham-I-Never-Saw-a-church-donation-that-didn't-go-into-my-personal-fortune-Young? Or Joseph-I-never-did-an-honest-day's-work-in-my-life-Smith? Or maybe Joseph-F-Beating-my-wife-is-okay-Smith?

Post by **_Trevor** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:03 am

harmony wrote:Are you referring to Brigham-I-Never-Saw-a-church-donation-that-didn't-go-into-my-personal-fortune-Young? Or Joseph-I-never-did-an-honest-day's-work-in-my-life-Smith? Or maybe Joseph-F-Beating-my-wife-is-okay-Smith?

Well, just because you are a man of God doesn't mean you're perfect. It means you get to act like you are.

Post by **_Zoidberg** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:04 am

harmony wrote: Or maybe Joseph-F-Beating-my-wife-is-okay-Smith?

He actually beat his wife/wives?

Post by **_harmony** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:08 am

Zoidberg wrote:
harmony wrote: Or maybe Joseph-F-Beating-my-wife-is-okay-Smith?

He actually beat his wife/wives?

His first wife was a bit of a handful and he had a violent temper. I believe the story goes that he once beat her with a coiled up rope. They eventually divorced, after he married his 2nd wife. It's in the Sunstone article on him, with documentation.

Post by **_Coggins7** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:14 pm

Why aren't you watching the Conference, Coggins? Don't put words in my mouth. Not the Church's programs, the government's. He was also advocating theocracy on a national level. Against the Foreign Aid program: "The Book of Mormon Warns America"; against the welfare program: "The Proper Role of Government". You can find the audios here: http://www.gapages.com/bensoet2.htm

The text of the second talk is also found here: http://zionsbest.com/proper_role.html

Oh yes, well, the government's "welfare" program is many light years from the Church's, and many of the best minds of the 20th century have pointed out its many failings, some of them disastrous for its recipients (or victims, depending upon your point of view).

I'd like a source for your claim that Benson advocated theocracy on a national level.

Our foreign aid program since the early sixties has been overall, an abject failure for most of those countries who received it and a major boondoggle for those (us) who funded it. There are clear reasons for this state of affairs, but no need to go into that here. Suffice it to say that foreign aid (as opposed to charity that is dispensed directly to people in need by competent intermediaries) has, for some forty years, brought into stark relief, just why many of these countries are intractably poor in the first place, while doing little or nothing to alleviate that situation. Hooray for Benson for being against it-so are many others who actually understand its history.