Trinity wrote:I strongly feel like the public educational system needs competition in order to step up the quality of the school systems in America. If you do not agree that the public schools are failing our children, please see this video:
I am in Utah and I am in favor of vouchers and will be voting for them. This comes from years of experience in trying to affect change within the current heavily-laden bureaucracy known as the Utah PTA/PTSA. It also comes from a dismal experience trying to get the school board to change (here in the Alpine school district) a certain evil known as investigative math. We tried for several years with no give, and because of parental frustration on this matter, charter schools have popped up (and flourished) everywhere. My son has been attending Renaissance Academy for two years and is absolutely thriving academically.
Furthermore, I am less than happy of the tactics the NEA/UEA have taken with regards to the vouchers. They have sat and whittled away the interest of the public school educational system for years. THEN when the vouchers are already passed, they feel the need to come and piss on what they feel is their territory (again, follow the money). Not giving suggestions or alternatives for improving the system, just making sure that their monopoly is protected.
I strongly feel like the public educational system needs competition in order to step up the quality of the school systems in America. If you do not agree that the public schools are failing our children, please see this video:
Somehow I don't think that rich folks from Alpine, who have one of the best white-bread public school systems in the United States (really, do you have any minorities?) really have much clue about the impact vouchers will have upon public education.
The reality is that the rich get better public school systems than the poor with vouchers. How so? The rich have more disposable income to use to supplement their vouchers. The poor have none. So, more money will be spent on education in places like Alpine than in places like West Salt Lake City. That means that the better teachers will go (they already go) to the Alpine School District. That seems fair, doesn't it? Keep those minority types in their place, right?
This country has become great because of the universality of public education. Although certainly not perfect, and no government system is perfect, it moves government money into the poorest areas of the community.
I am in Utah and I am in favor of vouchers and will be voting for them. This comes from years of experience in trying to affect change within the current heavily-laden bureaucracy known as the Utah PTA/PTSA. It also comes from a dismal experience trying to get the school board to change (here in the Alpine school district) a certain evil known as investigative math. We tried for several years with no give, and because of parental frustration on this matter, charter schools have popped up (and flourished) everywhere. My son has been attending Renaissance Academy for two years and is absolutely thriving academically.
I have a 2nd grader in the alpine school district. I've been impressed with the math he's learning (and I'm an accountant). He's doing stuff (practical stuff) that I didn't know till much later. Granted, he's being taught a combination of traditional math, and the 'new' math. I think it's great.
Separately, you do know that vouchers have nothing to do with charter schools right?
Oh, and I'm definitely voting NO today. I refuse to pay for my neighbor to go to an LDS school. (i think it's called heritage or something like that - it's the school across the street form the mt. timp. temple).
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
Ok. Let's talk about Utah specifically. I have already mentioned the investigative math issue that tripped up our students here in the Alpine school district. We were unable to get the school district to budge, the only alternative was to pull the students out and put them in a charter or private school where the parent input was better received.
Prior to that, I was very active in the PTA from the years 1994-2000, functioning in either PTA president or legislative VP capacity. In 1997 I led a collaborative effort with three other schools in the Granite school district to try and implement a uniform school policy modification to the state/district bylaws because of surging school violence incidents stemming from gang related activity. We took it through the appropriate and necessary channels as outlined by the school charters. It took nearly two years of going through administrative hoops before a watered down policy was approved, enabling the individual schools to create an area-specific policy for their school.
As a parent I felt like my influence in making change that was critical to the safety of the public school students was very limited and certainly slowed down by the bureaucratic hoops we were legally forced to jump. It was due to my frustrations on this matter that I stopped my level of activity with my children's school PTA.
My third beef with the Utah school system was the education of my oldest daughter. She was an A student until 7th grade, where she began to have behavioral problems. At 15 she was pulled from the school system and attended an accredited school as part of a treatment center she was in. So from the age of approximately 14-16 she was not in the public school system, but in a watered down system of intermittent education where she did packets for her curriculum. When she was 17 she decided against going back to the local high school, and finished up her schooling online. In three months she caught up, and surpassed her friends in the local high school. She graduated with a 3.2 gpa and tested at higher levels in her college entrance exams. I was shocked and astounded that, with the haphazard, intermittent nature of her schooling, she seemingly performed better than her peers in the public school. And that was with nearly a two year gap in her high school education.
For fun, a few members in my town were doing research on how the public school performance has fared over the years. One of the mothers came up with this interesting eigth grade final exam in 1895 in Salina, Kansas. (It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina , KS, and reprinted by the Salina Journal.)
8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS -1895
Grammar (Time, one hour
1. Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.
2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph
4 What are the principal parts of a verb? Give principal parts of "lie,""play," and "run."
5. Define case; illustrate each case.
6.. What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
Arithmetic (Time,1 hour 15 minutes)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3,942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1,050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find the cost of 6,720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per metre?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance of which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt
U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes )
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865
Orthography (Time, one hour) [Do we even know what this is?]
1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u.' (HUH?)
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
8 Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane , vain, vein, raze, raise, rays
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon , St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.
Could any of you pass this test today? Try it out. ;)
I am in Utah and I am in favor of vouchers and will be voting for them. This comes from years of experience in trying to affect change within the current heavily-laden bureaucracy known as the Utah PTA/PTSA. It also comes from a dismal experience trying to get the school board to change (here in the Alpine school district) a certain evil known as investigative math. We tried for several years with no give, and because of parental frustration on this matter, charter schools have popped up (and flourished) everywhere. My son has been attending Renaissance Academy for two years and is absolutely thriving academically.
I have a 2nd grader in the alpine school district. I've been impressed with the math he's learning (and I'm an accountant). He's doing stuff (practical stuff) that I didn't know till much later. Granted, he's being taught a combination of traditional math, and the 'new' math. I think it's great.
Separately, you do know that vouchers have nothing to do with charter schools right?
Oh, and I'm definitely voting NO today. I refuse to pay for my neighbor to go to an LDS school. (I think it's called heritage or something like that - it's the school across the street form the mt. timp. temple).
They changed the math back because of parental protest. And I brought up the charter school as an argument for competition breeding better quality all around.
It is Heritage school across from Mt. Timp. Do you live close by?
In case anyone is not aware, I am not an isolationist. I am not a fundie. I am a mother with four in the public school system who is experienced with the ways and means of the public school system. I am very involved in my children's education and I am a parent who believes that the parent should have the flexibility in deciding which school ultimately would be best for their child. And yes, Who Knows, even if that means a parochial school. (I'm inclined to use the B word with your comments here, but will refrain)
Trinity - I don't think anyone will disagree with you that there are problems with the public school system.
My problem is, is that no one has convinced me that vouchers are the solution. Again, especially in utah, i see this tactic as one merely for parents to get the government to pay for their kids to go to an LDS school.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
I am in Utah and I am in favor of vouchers and will be voting for them. This comes from years of experience in trying to affect change within the current heavily-laden bureaucracy known as the Utah PTA/PTSA. It also comes from a dismal experience trying to get the school board to change (here in the Alpine school district) a certain evil known as investigative math. We tried for several years with no give, and because of parental frustration on this matter, charter schools have popped up (and flourished) everywhere. My son has been attending Renaissance Academy for two years and is absolutely thriving academically.
I have a 2nd grader in the alpine school district. I've been impressed with the math he's learning (and I'm an accountant). He's doing stuff (practical stuff) that I didn't know till much later. Granted, he's being taught a combination of traditional math, and the 'new' math. I think it's great.
Separately, you do know that vouchers have nothing to do with charter schools right?
Oh, and I'm definitely voting NO today. I refuse to pay for my neighbor to go to an LDS school. (I think it's called heritage or something like that - it's the school across the street form the mt. timp. temple).
They changed the math back because of parental protest. And I brought up the charter school as an argument for competition breeding better quality all around.
It is Heritage school across from Mt. Timp. Do you live close by?
In case anyone is not aware, I am not an isolationist. I am not a fundie. I am a mother with four in the public school system who is experienced with the ways and means of the public school system. I am very involved in my children's education and I am a parent who believes that the parent should have the flexibility in deciding which school ultimately would be best for their child. And yes, Who Knows, even if that means a parochial school. (I'm inclined to use the B word with your comments here, but will refrain)
I don't doubt your concerns with the school system, but as you note, you were able to attain a change to the system with lobbying public officials over your math issue.
1. Is it right for your non-member Alpine neighbor to pay taxes so that a voucher may be used in a school with LDS-only values?
2. Do you think that a Hispanic child of illegal alien parents in West Salt Lake will have an improved chance to attend a "Renaissance Academy" once vouchers pass, or do Alpine parents care about that social issue? Do you think that after vouchers, there will be better teachers and counselors within walking distance of that Hispanic child, or worse?
I don't doubt that your LDS-only schools in Alpine with greatly benefit by a voucher system, and that the already excellent Alpine School District will get even better. It is really a crying shame, however. Utahns are so danged provincial.
Trinity wrote:It is Heritage school across from Mt. Timp. Do you live close by?
Yep. I live about 5 minutes from there - in PG.
They changed the math back because of parental protest.
Well, then, the system worked, didn't it? :)
And yes, Who Knows, even if that means a parochial school. (I'm inclined to use the B word with your comments here, but will refrain)
You just did.
Look, I couldn't care less where my neighbors go to school. If they want to go to an LDS school, fine with me. My issue is when the government is subsidizing this. And that is essentially what would be happening with vouchers.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
rcrocket wrote:I don't doubt your concerns with the school system, but as you note, you were able to attain a change to the system with lobbying public officials over your math issue.
EXACTLY!
If people got as involved in their public school system as they are in this voucher debate, we could have things changed for the better in no time.
Sorry, vouchers aren't the answer to your problems.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
rcrocket wrote:I don't doubt your concerns with the school system, but as you note, you were able to attain a change to the system with lobbying public officials over your math issue.
EXACTLY!
If people got as involved in their public school system as they are in this voucher debate, we could have things changed for the better in no time.
Sorry, vouchers aren't the answer to your problems.
True enough, true true.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam