Elder Holland: "Jesus Christ shaved off his beard."

[_karl61]

that would cause some LDS artists to go into a catatonic state....they would need to repaint a lot of their work.

[_Inconceivable]

When Loren C. Dunn was mission president in the late 70's, he required all missionaries to have a hair part and only on the side. He called the one in the middle the "Wasach Split" and it was forbidden. Lots of lock step going on back then with the "Rainbows" (the verbatum discussions), and the "BD" (baptismal discussion - missionaries would literally bring people off the street to the chapel for a hammering/baptism "like the day of pentacost").

For which he was chastised. When SLC heard what was going on, they put a stop to it. I was Ward Mission Leader when Dunn was in Sydney, and also one who objected to his program. There were a few successes, but the majority baptised under this program never returned to the Church. It was a complete farce, and most members also thought so.

I'm glad you felt that way, Ray. I felt for the members if the missionaries ever got a hold of their friends. It's amazing that it went on as long as it did.

I came to serve a few years after he left. I don't recall the members having much of a connection or fondness for us missionaries. Of course the mission motto was, "commit their face off". nuts.

As I recall, after being chastised, he became one of the quorem of the 70. Commended, promoted, chastened.. whatever.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

I'd like to see an actual reference, but one probably can't be provided.

[_moksha]

I had no idea until now what has caused all of you guys to go apostate. Now I know. You don't have a sense of humor. You can't tell when someone is joking.

Did the Elder smile or give any facial or other clues as to less than serious intent? If so, they should have known he was joking. Those previous parts of about earrings and white shirts could take on a whole new meaning.

[_Mister Scratch]

While I've never heard of an Apostle sharing details of such an experience I've been in 4 meetings (with 3 Apostles) wherein the Apostle said they had had such an experience.

What does this mean, Nehor? You've "never heard" of Apostles telling that they've "seen Christ," and yet you were in "4 meetings" where they did exactly that? And, moreover, what "such an experience" are you referring to? Merely that they saw Christ, or that they observed the Savior sans beard and long hair?

[_LifeOnaPlate]

While I've never heard of an Apostle sharing details of such an experience I've been in 4 meetings (with 3 Apostles) wherein the Apostle said they had had such an experience.

What does this mean, Nehor? You've "never heard" of Apostles telling that they've "seen Christ," and yet you were in "4 meetings" where they did exactly that? And, moreover, what "such an experience" are you referring to? Merely that they saw Christ, or that they observed the Savior sans beard and long hair?

This is a good time to introduce my new comic book I am making, after being inspired by CKSalmon:

[_Mister Scratch]

While I've never heard of an Apostle sharing details of such an experience I've been in 4 meetings (with 3 Apostles) wherein the Apostle said they had had such an experience.

What does this mean, Nehor? You've "never heard" of Apostles telling that they've "seen Christ," and yet you were in "4 meetings" where they did exactly that? And, moreover, what "such an experience" are you referring to? Merely that they saw Christ, or that they observed the Savior sans beard and long hair?

This is a good time to introduce my new comic book I am making, after being inspired by CKSalmon:

LoaP, you know I love you, but this is a very stupid and immature reply. There is nothing wrong with folks being curious about these supreme and sublime experiences. Moreover, Elder Holland obviously had no problem pulling this little "Trump card" out of his pocket in order to browbeat the missionaries into submissive obedience.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

While I've never heard of an Apostle sharing details of such an experience I've been in 4 meetings (with 3 Apostles) wherein the Apostle said they had had such an experience.

What does this mean, Nehor? You've "never heard" of Apostles telling that they've "seen Christ," and yet you were in "4 meetings" where they did exactly that? And, moreover, what "such an experience" are you referring to? Merely that they saw Christ, or that they observed the Savior sans beard and long hair?

This is a good time to introduce my new comic book I am making, after being inspired by CKSalmon:

LoaP, you know I love you, but this is a very stupid and immature reply. There is nothing wrong with folks being curious about these supreme and sublime experiences. Moreover, Elder Holland obviously had no problem pulling this little "Trump card" out of his pocket in order to browbeat the missionaries into submissive obedience.

I have no tangible evidence Elder Holland said anything of the sort. ;)

[_Mister Scratch]

While I've never heard of an Apostle sharing details of such an experience I've been in 4 meetings (with 3 Apostles) wherein the Apostle said they had had such an experience.

What does this mean, Nehor? You've "never heard" of Apostles telling that they've "seen Christ," and yet you were in "4 meetings" where they did exactly that? And, moreover, what "such an experience" are you referring to? Merely that they saw Christ, or that they observed the Savior sans beard and long hair?

This is a good time to introduce my new comic book I am making, after being inspired by CKSalmon:

LoaP, you know I love you, but this is a very stupid and immature reply. There is nothing wrong with folks being curious about these supreme and sublime experiences. Moreover, Elder Holland obviously had no problem pulling this little "Trump card" out of his pocket in order to browbeat the missionaries into submissive obedience.

I have no tangible evidence Elder Holland said anything of the sort. ;)

Ah, okay. So do you think that The Nehor is therefore a "swine," since some of the Brethren apparently freely told of their encounters in front of him?

[_Ray A]

I'm glad you felt that way, Ray. I felt for the members if the missionaries ever got a hold of their friends. It's amazing that it went on as long as it did.

I came to serve a few years after he left. I don't recall the members having much of a connection or fondness for us missionaries. Of course the mission motto was, "commit their face off". nuts.

As I recall, after being chastised, he became one of the quorem of the 70. Commended, promoted, chastened.. whatever.

You may be confusing Dunn with Earl Tingey. Loren Dunn was already a GA when called to preside over the Sydney Mission. Tingey was the MP before Dunn, and he was subsequently called to be a GA. Tingey had a very laid back approach to missionary work, and seemed to favour the "let them govern themselves" approach. This meant that many missionaries took liberties, like sleeping in 'till 7.30am. It was a bit out of control, and Dunn went to the other extreme in trying to rectify this. I did, and still do prefer, President Tingey's approach, because the missionaries seemed so much more human, and approachable. Under Loren Dunn, they became unapproachable, aloof, and none were allowed to wear "loud" suits. All clothing had to be "dark", and conservative. It was kind of morbid. His "24 hour" baptism idea was, I think, in part, to try to impress the Brethren, but it had the opposite effect. The convert losses from this were substantial. Dozens were baptised, but only a very small percentage were retained. They were caught, as it were, in an "emotional moment", which faded when the real tests came. After the Sydney experiment, Salt Lake City Headquarters clamped down on "hurried baptisms". In other words, they felt is was better to have two informed converts, than two hundred uninformed ones.