Jersey Girl wrote:But do you likewise see, that in the believing mind it is God who tests US?
"This is only a test"
I used to think His opinion and rating of me counted. If He really is a Mormon, I've quit playing his "test" game. I will be better off making a pleasant place in Hell than to shovel any more of what he has revealed to wicked men.
A loving and wise Father would not be the author of so many confusing tests laden with an emotional roller coaster of guilt, negative enforcement and overwhelm. I don't fit the Mormon God's paradigm. I would be more comfortable being the lesser of the weakest of "saints".
What I'm saying is that perhaps the Mormon God is the One. If that is the case, I reject Him and his games.
"God is not the Author of confusion" - Not.
Been there as well. Difficult place to be. Good luck.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Scottie wrote:So, I'm trying to understand you here.
Are you saying that you have to be a Mormon in order for God to bless you, and now that you're not one, you are not worthy of the blessings? Or are you saying that because you have been questioning your faith, you now have a lack of it and God doesn't work without faith?
Since I've been questioning my faith I've refused to go along with things I know are false. The miracles I've witnessed are intermingled with these lies. I am really too angry to listen to God at this point due to His neglect in His assistance to make sense of this mess. All things considered, I'm just some dumb mortal with 40 or so years of fallible experience. I'm not too cynical to throw it all out.
I'm open to explanation, so long as it isn't along the line of Charity's predictable mind numbing mormonspeak.
Perhaps someday I will find peace (like I thought I occasionally felt). For now I'm vexed.
Scottie wrote:So, I'm trying to understand you here.
Are you saying that you have to be a Mormon in order for God to bless you, and now that you're not one, you are not worthy of the blessings? Or are you saying that because you have been questioning your faith, you now have a lack of it and God doesn't work without faith?
Since I've been questioning my faith I've refused to go along with things I know are false. The miracles I've witnessed are intermingled with these lies. I am really too angry to listen to God at this point due to His neglect in His assistance to make sense of this mess. All things considered, I'm just some dumb mortal with 40 or so years of fallible experience. I'm not too cynical to throw it all out.
I'm open to explanation, so long as it isn't along the line of Charity's predictable mind numbing mormonspeak.
Perhaps someday I will find peace (like I thought I occasionally felt). For now I'm vexed.
You don't have to answer this on the thread but, do I know you from elsewhere? Just curious and again, if you'd like to answer that here or in PM's or not at all...I respect that.
Jersey Girl wrote: Do you ever consider that Joseph Smith was the author of confusion?
..or man. Certainly. Yet the miracles are intermixed with doctrine he is purported to be the author (or revelator) of.
Nehor,
With all due respect, I think you are still there.
You're a pretty decent guy because it appears that you don't live the example of Joseph Smith. Why would you affiliate yourself with such a dirtbag?
It has always been taught that it is "all or nothing". It is their standard to either "take it or leave it". This doctrine has never changed and there is no indication that it will.
You don't represent that line of reason and neither do I.
Scottie wrote:So, I'm trying to understand you here.
Are you saying that you have to be a Mormon in order for God to bless you, and now that you're not one, you are not worthy of the blessings? Or are you saying that because you have been questioning your faith, you now have a lack of it and God doesn't work without faith?
Since I've been questioning my faith I've refused to go along with things I know are false. The miracles I've witnessed are intermingled with these lies. I am really too angry to listen to God at this point due to His neglect in His assistance to make sense of this mess. All things considered, I'm just some dumb mortal with 40 or so years of fallible experience. I'm not too cynical to throw it all out.
I'm open to explanation, so long as it isn't along the line of Charity's predictable mind numbing mormonspeak.
Perhaps someday I will find peace (like I thought I occasionally felt). For now I'm vexed.
I know how you feel. I have had miracles in the past as well. I don't know what caused them, and I'm pretty slow to chalk it up to coincidence. I certainly don't take every 2 bit piece of luck and turn it into a miracle, but there are some VERY significant points in my life where I feel as though some kind of otherworldly force had some kind of hand in it. I'm not sure why. I'm not sure what this force is. I don't believe it is the Christian God, although I won't completely rule that possibility out. I'm content, for right now, not understanding what it is. If it IS the Mormon God, it's up to Him to convince me that He is real. I've asked and been ignored for long enough.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Jersey Girl wrote:You don't have to answer this on the thread but, do I know you from elsewhere? Just curious and again, if you'd like to answer that here or in PM's or not at all...I respect that.
Anonimity is a good thing for today. But I don't think we've met. I did post my story on the NOM board over a year ago. I'm unwilling to live their religeon.
Scottie wrote:I know how you feel. I have had miracles in the past as well. I don't know what caused them, and I'm pretty slow to chalk it up to coincidence. I certainly don't take every 2 bit piece of luck and turn it into a miracle, but there are some VERY significant points in my life where I feel as though some kind of otherworldly force had some kind of hand in it. I'm not sure why. I'm not sure what this force is. I don't believe it is the Christian God, although I won't completely rule that possibility out. I'm content, for right now, not understanding what it is. If it IS the Mormon God, it's up to Him to convince me that He is real. I've asked and been ignored for long enough.
Pretty much same boat, Scottie.
It is not a matter of whether He (or It or They) is real. I'm just tired of the games. If I signed up for this, I was naïve and exploited.
Jersey Girl wrote:You don't have to answer this on the thread but, do I know you from elsewhere? Just curious and again, if you'd like to answer that here or in PM's or not at all...I respect that.
Anonimity is a good thing for today. But I don't think we've met. I did post my story on the NOM board over a year ago. I'm unwilling to live their religeon.
You bet. I thought your story sounded super familiar.
dartagnan wrote:Well for me, I cannot wrap my mind around the notion that we are here due to a big bang, and that the beauty of the universe is just an accident.
It has intelligent design written all over its face, as far as I can see, and when atheists try to explain to me why it isn't, I find them engaging in the same kind of cognitive processes exhibited by the apologists.
I guess they just have faith that the big bang (or whatever theory they fancy) ocurred.
I have to say that I agree with what you've stated above, Kevin. Either I haven't encountered the right skeptics or they are, as you say, reverting to the same (well I wouldn't call them processes) techniques as believers.
One group for example, will tell you that the big bang had no cause yet, science is now looking for the cause.
Well, I think there's a pretty big difference between science and faith in God or creation. Science searches for the answers to the tough questions, while faith merely has an easy answer as default. I don't necessarily see them related, so easily? I see this mentioned quite often and don't quite understand how when science seeks to unravel mysteries that it can be equated to a dogma that said all the answers are already known in the form of God. I don't geddit!