Gazelam wrote:I taught the lesson to introduce our new manual, but I used my own lesson, not the manual.
I opened with 'Why do Mormons worship Joseph Smith, why does your church manual have Joseph Smith on the cover and not Jesus Christ?"
That was a nice attention getter, and I got alot of deer in the headlights looks from the quorum.
The lesson consisted of twelve points of doctrine Joseph brought to us that are unique to our faith.
A visit to the Joseph Smith Memorial Building in downtown SLC is sufficient to suggest the possibility that Mormons DO worship Joseph Smith. Every nook, cranny, corner is stuffed with some kind of statue, painting, representation, etc. of the guy. If Chairman Mao could manage a ectoplasmic visit there, I think he'd be jealous.
Then there's the Joseph Smith movie in the Legacy Theater. My aged parents were here and they wanted to see it. So I took them. Initially, I did not intend to sit through it, but I wanted to support my parents.
The movie is the absolute worst type of hagiography/propoganda. To say that it distorts history is a gross understatement. Joseph Smith is portrayed as an umblemished, saint of a man--why he can even whack an early version of a baseball over the heads of the outfielders. The movie is blatantly dishonest about the history of the man. It is shameful. It is embarrassing. I don't think that at the height of the Culteral Revolution that party functionaries chould have produced such a bavura piece of propoganda.
(By the way, if anyone's seen it, was the guy who played Joseph Smith the same guy who played the brother of Meg Ryan in Kate & Leopold?)
The slavish devotion so shamelessly on display at the Joseph Smith Building is nauseating, and one can understandably come away thinking that Mormons do indeed worship Joseph Smith.
Exactly what were you expecting to see in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building? Statues of the Buddha and films about Gahndi?
No. It is possible to honor someone with creating a demi-God out of him. There is a line, and the Joseph Smith bulding crosses over it.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
Gazelam wrote:I taught the lesson to introduce our new manual, but I used my own lesson, not the manual.
I opened with 'Why do Mormons worship Joseph Smith, why does your church manual have Joseph Smith on the cover and not Jesus Christ?"
That was a nice attention getter, and I got alot of deer in the headlights looks from the quorum.
The lesson consisted of twelve points of doctrine Joseph brought to us that are unique to our faith.
A visit to the Joseph Smith Memorial Building in downtown SLC is sufficient to suggest the possibility that Mormons DO worship Joseph Smith. Every nook, cranny, corner is stuffed with some kind of statue, painting, representation, etc. of the guy. If Chairman Mao could manage a ectoplasmic visit there, I think he'd be jealous.
Then there's the Joseph Smith movie in the Legacy Theater. My aged parents were here and they wanted to see it. So I took them. Initially, I did not intend to sit through it, but I wanted to support my parents.
The movie is the absolute worst type of hagiography/propoganda. To say that it distorts history is a gross understatement. Joseph Smith is portrayed as an umblemished, saint of a man--why he can even whack an early version of a baseball over the heads of the outfielders. The movie is blatantly dishonest about the history of the man. It is shameful. It is embarrassing. I don't think that at the height of the Culteral Revolution that party functionaries chould have produced such a bavura piece of propoganda.
(By the way, if anyone's seen it, was the guy who played Joseph Smith the same guy who played the brother of Meg Ryan in Kate & Leopold?)
The slavish devotion so shamelessly on display at the Joseph Smith Building is nauseating, and one can understandably come away thinking that Mormons do indeed worship Joseph Smith.
Exactly what were you expecting to see in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building? Statues of the Buddha and films about Gahndi?
No. It is possible to honor someone with creating a demi-God out of him. There is a line, and the Joseph Smith bulding crosses over it.
Well, as an active TBM who has met demi-gods I will confidently say that Joseph Smith was not a demi-god.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
evolving wrote:9. his death was primarily caused by the destruction of the Nauvoo expositor Press..
This is certainly wrong. I don't know how you could conclude the motivations of many long distant.
He was held in jail for treason. He was charged with treason not because the City Council authorized the destruction of the press, but because he declared martial law. So, I'd say, a better (and I can't say, "primarily") reason for his death was that a drunken, riled up mob attacked him after he was jailed for treason for declaring martial law.
Was the destruction of the press a factor? Certainly, as was bloc voting, which appeared to concern the locals lots more than celestial wifery if you just base what you see upon what was said in the press. Also, claims of Mormon banditry; the Laws' participation in whipping things up.
rcrocket
I admit “primarily” was a bad word to use – I should have used “principle”, so you could have read “among” - but subtle word play is not my strength. If the occasion arises, I'll be sure to involve the gritty details of the day. I'd love to discuss Joseph, sans the garment, receiving comfort from a bottle of red wine, bullets tearing through his flesh while he pops off three of the six barrels of his borrowed pistol.... is there no help for the widows son. but that would have opened too many doors. milk before meat ya know :)
Mercury wrote:How different will HP group be next week?
I have already loaned out my two copies of RSR, and two sets of B.H. Roberts Comprehensive History. Next Week - the first vision - the manual uses the 1832 & 1842 accounts, thus opening the door for the other 6 or so versions to be discussed. I have already passed out the comparison chart from FARMS..should be fun
So with this information being disseminated, what impact do you foresee on the outlook of those in your HP group?
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
6. the original name the church used, the first change, and the second change...
This is covered in the manual in the timeline:
1830, April 6:
Formally organizes the Church at the home of Peter Whitmer Sr. in Fayette (see D&C 20:1). At first the official name of the Church is the Church of Christ. On May 3, 1834, the name is changed to The Church of the Latter Day Saints. On April 26, 1838, the name is changed by revelation to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (see D&C 115:4).
Mercury wrote: So with this information being disseminated, what impact do you foresee on the outlook of those in your HP group?
I really do not expect much change. I hope for change though. Here is what I know for sure. Last year I was a faithful believing orthodox Mormon. And if you would have asked me who Pythagoras was, I would have said was he a guy who invented a triangle or something? In the past year I have read thousands and thousands of pages on Mormonism both pro and con. I have spent way too much time reading online message boards.. and I have also read books on ancient cultures, belief systems and mythologies. if I had not had the desire to figure out where Joseph got the idea of dropping a rock in a hat and claiming to see visions, I would have never read books by John Dee, Edward Kelly, Agrippa, Crowley, and Barrett – if I had not discovered the Book of Abraham issues, I would have never read “the Pearl” or studied Memphite theology, Read the Book of the Dead, Thomas Dick, or studied Abrahamic traditions in ancient Jewish Mysticism.. If I had not realized the parallels of Masonic rites and the LDS temple, I would have never started collecting and searching for the ancient parallels in all “temple-like” initiation ceremonies, from all cultures -- or read any of Manly P Hall’s books.
The world is much bigger than it was before. Maybe next year I will be able to discuss Enuma Elish and the epic of Gilgamesh with my neighbors and friends. Who knows?? that would be cool -
Yeah. You'll be able to discuss these with them right up until the very second they realize you're not a true believer anymore. One whiff of anti-mormon agenda and their shields will be up faster than you can say "make it so!"
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
You are wrong. I care. It took guts to teach an honest lesson. I wish more members were this honest.
I think this is best diagnosed as "Incipient Mormoform Narcissistic Personality Disorder", an affliction that seems to be concentrated among dissident, almost dissident, and fully dissident Mormons.
The first step in dealing with this, is admitting you have a problem...
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.