beastie wrote:What is so disturbing about this to me is that back when I was at BYU in 1976-78, this same thinking was evident and pervasive among the coeds (ie, that it would be better to die than "let" yourself be raped). I know this was a pervasive and problematic viewpoint because the police (or maybe it was BYU security, I can't remember) went out of their way to try and dispel this bit of nonsense.
So nothing has changed in thirty years. That is tragic.
How do non-LDS rape victims think?
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that victims often blame themselves. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to find differences in LDS and other attitudes among rape victims.
By the way, in my experience with women they often blame themselves for a lot of things when they shouldn't. Maybe that's just been my experience though. Again, that is not to say that LDS women view rape the same way others do. I really do think it would be nice if the die instead "leting" yourself be raped myth were dispelled say, during General Conference and in lessons for young women.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
I think that, as in other instances, the LDS church is simply a couple of decades behind the larger culture. It's only been in the last few decades that progress has been made - albeit slowly - in regards to creating an environment in which victims of rape feel safe enough to report the crime. Obviously, we still have a long ways to go, but our larger society is making progress nonetheless. So I guess if we give the church another thirty years, they will start to make progress as well.
While it may be true that nonLDS victims of rape, to some extent, may blame themselves, even back before progress was being made on this issue, I don't remember women thinking that it would be better to die fighting off a rape attack than to "let" yourself be raped. I think that is probably uniquely associated with religious thoughts.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
This subject really makes me sick. Sick that there can't be enough love and understanding that a person in this position can't find help and comfort in their own church. Sick that they have to blame themselves rather than the victimizer. I do think this is not totally a Mormon issue but licked cupcakes, pine box stories, and culture of repressed sexually taught and preached in the Mormon religion just plain makes it all worse. Those teachings are garbage.
Rapists should get the death penalty, harsh yes, but my belief.
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably. bcspace
Pokatator wrote:Rapists should get the death penalty, harsh yes, but my belief.
Death is too good for them.
I'm thinking water-boarding followed by year in solitary, followed by castration, followed by caning, followed by the rack, then the iron maiden, then another year in solitary . . .
Alright, so I don't really believe in toture, but rapists do make me wonder sometimes whether I should reconsider.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
I don't know any rape victims, but I have a REALLY hard time believing that any of the bishops that I have known would demonize the women.
If anything, they have heard too many licked cupcakes/I would rather see them in a pine box than lose their virtue type lessons. They demonize themselves. I doubt the members are demonizing them.
Who is giving those lessons, Scottie? Who???? Who has decided on those lesson plans? Who??? LEADERS and OTHER MEMBERS. The victims have not given these lessons to themselves, nor invented them in the first place. To say they "demonize themselves" is grossly ignorant, let alone being a grammatical impossiblity.
by the way, you may very well know some rape victims. That you don't know you know them should speak volumes to you about the actual situation.
Those are all good points.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Pokatator wrote:This subject really makes me sick. Sick that there can't be enough love and understanding that a person in this position can't find help and comfort in their own church. Sick that they have to blame themselves rather than the victimizer. I do think this is not totally a Mormon issue but licked cupcakes, pine box stories, and culture of repressed sexually taught and preached in the Mormon religion just plain makes it all worse. Those teachings are garbage.
Rapists should get the death penalty, harsh yes, but my belief.
Unfortunately, like I said before, the term "rape" has a too broad a scope. I'm not sure that the young man who maybe took advantage of a girl who had a little too much to drink, but felt bad the next day and cried rape deserves the death penalty, does he?
Now, the man in the article who abducted the girl and violently raped her, FOR SURE!!
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Pokatator wrote:This subject really makes me sick. Sick that there can't be enough love and understanding that a person in this position can't find help and comfort in their own church. Sick that they have to blame themselves rather than the victimizer. I do think this is not totally a Mormon issue but licked cupcakes, pine box stories, and culture of repressed sexually taught and preached in the Mormon religion just plain makes it all worse. Those teachings are garbage.
Rapists should get the death penalty, harsh yes, but my belief.
Unfortunately, like I said before, the term "rape" has a too broad a scope. I'm not sure that the young man who maybe took advantage of a girl who had a little too much to drink, but felt bad the next day and cried rape deserves the death penalty, does he?
Now, the man in the article who abducted the girl and violently raped her, FOR SURE!!
Scottie,
I always respect your level headedness, I was a little angry when I responded. I agree there are degrees and lack of standard definition of rape. After rethinking I think adding the word "violent" to the definition fits and anything that has to do with a child. The child stuff really gets me going.
Thanx
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably. bcspace
More than 90 percent of rapes in the city go unreported, according to the lead rape investigator for the BYU Police Department
I call B.S. If they go unreported, then how is it possible to count how many there are?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
More than 90 percent of rapes in the city go unreported, according to the lead rape investigator for the BYU Police Department
I call B.S. If they go unreported, then how is it possible to count how many there are?
My guess is they pulled statistics from national averages and got a # of rapes per x thousand people, then applied that number to the population of Utah County.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo