BYU athlete kicked out for not attending church enough ....

[_The Nehor]

Just got off the phone with my brother at BYU and asked him about this out of curiosity.

He said that the Honor Code specifies that you must attend Church Meetings in your actual ward and that everyone knows this.

http://honorcode.BYU.edu/images/stories ... rm2006.pdf

[_the road to hana]

Talk about gullible. Dad said this, and he is absolutely correct and has no reason to fudge a little to protect his son.

Talk about gullible. Joseph said this, and he is absolutely correct and has no reason to fudge a little to protect himself.

[_the road to hana]

Just got off the phone with my brother at BYU and asked him about this out of curiosity.

He said that the Honor Code specifies that you must attend Church Meetings in your actual ward and that everyone knows this.

http://honorcode.BYU.edu/images/stories ... rm2006.pdf

It's impossible to do that when you're (a) watching General Conference, (b) visiting your family in another location or (3) (God forbid) sick.

I was in student branches/wards for years in Provo, and I hardly knew anyone who had 100% attendance. You're only counting the 6 times out of 11 he was at the student ward, and not Conference, or when he was home. If he was sick only two out of eleven weekends, that would beat the record of the local ward leadership here. I've been to a number of wards where it's an unusual occurrence to have all three members of the bishopric on the stand in any given week.

[_The Nehor]

Just got off the phone with my brother at BYU and asked him about this out of curiosity.

He said that the Honor Code specifies that you must attend Church Meetings in your actual ward and that everyone knows this.

http://honorcode.BYU.edu/images/stories ... rm2006.pdf

It's impossible to do that when you're (a) watching General Conference, (b) visiting your family in another location or (3) (God forbid) sick.

I was in student branches/wards for years in Provo, and I hardly knew anyone who had 100% attendance. You're only counting the 6 times out of 11 he was at the student ward, and not Conference, or when he was home. If he was sick only two out of eleven weekends, that would beat the record of the local ward leadership here. I've been to a number of wards where it's an unusual occurrence to have all three members of the bishopric on the stand in any given week.

Conference is one week. Ward-hopping is almost universally discouraged throughout the Church. However, the Bishop thought there was a problem. That's his call. There may be more going on, there might not.

Why this warrants being in the news is beyond me. It's a religious school. You live with the rules or you get booted. It happens a lot there.

[_Sethbag]

.....standards he seems to have not lived.

Because he didn't have 100% church attendance he didn't have the right standards? Puh-lease!

He barely had 50%. In every school I've attended that's a failing grade.

This is why I'm embarassed my undergrad degree comes from BYU. You can get a "failing grade" at BYU in Going to Church 101.

I really, really, really need to finish up my last three classes and get my Masters (not from BYU) so that respectable school can be first in my resume's education section, and not BYU.

[_the road to hana]

Conference is one week. Ward-hopping is almost universally discouraged throughout the Church.

Six plus one is seven. Going home for the weekend to visit family is not "ward hopping." I frequently spoke in my home ward on the weekends when I was at BYU, or participated in musical numbers. A good number of BYU students live within driving distance of their homes and go home to visit family on the weekends. That's not unusual. Are they going to start restricting BYU students from returning home or having contact with their families?

[_The Nehor]

This is why I'm embarassed my undergrad degree comes from BYU. You can get a "failing grade" at BYU in Going to Church 101.

I really, really, really need to finish up my last three classes and get my Masters (not from BYU) so that respectable school can be first in my resume's education section, and not BYU.

It may surprise you to know that I also dislike that policy. Hence I decided of my own volition NOT to go there. I didn't want my school and Church lives that heavily intertwined. That's also why despite the urging of many I did not go into CES.

[_Trinity]

Unless I am overlooking it, I see nothing which defines "regular" church attendance in this honor code form, other than defining attendance geography.

“Have you done and will you continue to do your duty in the Church, attend your meetings, and abide by the rules and standards of the Church?” In addition, please determine if the student understands the following:
● Attending your meetings means attending the ward (1) that has your membership records and (2) within whose geographical boundaries you live.

Ecclesiastical Leader:
I have thoroughly interviewed this student with respect to living the BYU Honor Code, including Academic Honesty, the Dress and
Grooming Standards, and the Residential Living Standards; and, for LDS students, attending his or her meetings and doing his or
her duty in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I give my endorsement.

Requirements
Whether on or off campus and between semesters, all students are expected to abide by the Honor Code, which also includes: the Academic
Honesty Policy, the Dress and Grooming Standards, and the applicable Residential Living Standards. LDS students must fulfill their duty in
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, attend Church meetings, and abide by the rules and standards of the Church on and off campus.
Students who are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are also expected to maintain the same standards of conduct.
They are encouraged to participate in services of their preferred religion.

Not clearly defining any specific percentage of activity in church attendance within the honor code leaves it up to the subjective and arbitrary nature of each individual bishop as to what is acceptable attendance. If they were to consistently pull ecclesiastical endorsements because someone missed a church meeting (and that would technically constitute lack of attendance in a church meeting), there would be no BYU students left.

[_charity]

Talk about gullible. Dad said this, and he is absolutely correct and has no reason to fudge a little to protect his son.

Talk about gullible. Joseph said this, and he is absolutely correct and has no reason to fudge a little to protect himself.

I would just like to see you guys show a little consistency. If you don't believe Joseph, why do you believe the dad?

It is the double standard that you guys so easily fall into that is so galling. At least, I looked at all the evidence before I made my choice.

[_the road to hana]

Talk about gullible. Dad said this, and he is absolutely correct and has no reason to fudge a little to protect his son.

Talk about gullible. Joseph said this, and he is absolutely correct and has no reason to fudge a little to protect himself.

I would just like to see you guys show a little consistency. If you don't believe Joseph, why do you believe the dad?

It is the double standard that you guys so easily fall into that is so galling. At least, I looked at all the evidence before I made my choice.

I'm sorry, Charity, but that has to be one of the funniest things I've read all day. You looked at all the evidence before you converted at age 19?

I sincerely doubt you had "all the evidence" at your disposal.

And you believe Joseph. Why not believe the dad?

Because you equate the bishop of this BYU student ward with BYU. And you equate BYU with the church. And you equate the church with can possibly do no wrong.

You watch. The policy will be revamped and more clearly stated. I doubt even the late President Hinckley who was buried today would have been so harsh on this student. Good thing GA's don't lose their ecclesiastical endorsement for attending in places other than their home wards.

The Salt Lake Tribune has reported some of the facts of the situation, including that the Honor Code office was contacted at BYU and clearly stated that the athlete's removal from the university did not come from their department.